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Thread: A slight embarassing problem...

  1. #1

    A slight embarassing problem...

    My guild leader which is a healer and has around an upper 350s Ilvl told me that I am one of the squishiest tanks he has healed for in heroics even with using CC. In raids though I hardly take as much damage as I do in 5 mans so I wonder if thats something to consider or not. I have been doing dungeons with a fresher 85 that is still working on getting all of their heroic dungeon gear and have noticed that I am using my CDs just to stay alive.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hitom/advanced

    I have been tanking for years and have never had this problem. I honestly don't know what it is and after plenty of number crunching I still cant figure it out. My guess is maybe my block is too high compared to my other stats especially when my Porcelain Crab procs (73% block with it procced). I have around 8% dodge and 12% parry. I know it may be kind of overkill being both Hit and Expertise capped. But, I am kind of anal about it and it bothers me when its not capped. I also have windwalk and Throngus' finger which tend to proc quite a bit so most of the time I am well above 100% avoidance. My other two trinkets that I have is the Symbiotic worm and the Vial of Stolen Memories.


    Please help me!! /sob

  2. #2
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    You outgear my Pally by a hefty margin, yet I have almost 5% more avoidance than you do (and about 4% more block!). You're stacking threat stats to the point of using a DPS ring that has *zero* avoidance or mastery or anything, and that's what's hurting you. There's a reason that few if any Paladin tanks are seeking out hit/exp, because in 99% of circumstances they're totally unnecessary and you should spend that itemization on defensive stats instead.

    Also, the TB trinket would beat out either of the two you're using. Mastery > avoidance, and the resist on-use is very nice (situational, but extremely powerful in those situations).

  3. #3
    I was thinking about getting the TB trinket and replacing Throngus' finger. I do pull a lot of dps. I do around 15k dps on aoe pulls and 9k on single target in dungeons. So say I fight that irritating urge to be hit/exp cap what should my hit and expertise be at? I worry about this because I dont want my threat to suffer.

  4. #4
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    Most people would say, get your hit and exp as low as possible. I know I have two tanks with less than 2% hit each, and 0 problems with sustained threat on either. Occasionally you get a string of misses or parries at the very beginning, but if DPS is going full blast 2-3 seconds into a fight then it's their fault for pulling aggro like a nub!

  5. #5
    I will try it that way and then decide from there. This sounds like the riskiest thing ever not going to lie.

  6. #6
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    I would say it's unlikely to be gear related, much more likely to be about technique. Sure, you could change the way you socket/reforge and shift some stats around but someone who is in full epic gear is already so far above the entry level for heroic dungeons that it's just not likely to be a 'stat' problem.

    I don't know prot paladin mechanics well enough to advise on that, (how do prot paladins get their attack speed slow debuff spread to multi-mob packs?) so I'll suggest instead that you need to consider how you manage target selection and crowd control. Do you recognise which of the mobs are most dangerous and pick them out for early killing or CC? Do you bother with CC (even though overgearing, many heroics have trash specifically designed to be awkward if not handled separately). Are you making good use of your interrupt and stun? Are you being careful with your facing (all that mastery counts for nothing if you are turning your back to mobs)?

    "Squishy" rarely means "has a couple of percentage points less avoidance". It much more commonly means a) has awful gear, way below the entry level for their content, b) is doing something wrong (incorrect use of cooldowns, ignoring encounter mechanics, not using abilities) or c) healer doesn't trust you.

  7. #7
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    Along the same lines of the above posts. Your stats look solid with adequate itemization (by the time im looking you probably already reforged hit/expertise, im not seeing much of either). Id just try to switch those trinkets, imho, both you use absolutely suck, specialy Thoruses finger (crab at least procs mastery).
    Either TB trinket, Tias grace -mastery and agil on proc - from heroic Lost city (last boss), or even Soul cascet (VP trinket-mastery and spellpower on use), are better mnitigation options.
    And you can alweys pack a stamina trinket (Stonecore, or better yet Magmaw's) - i personaly use one avoidance and one stamina as default.

  8. #8
    @Swelt Like I said I have been tanking for years it isnt any personal issue of mine and how I pull. I interrupt a lot. I only notice myself taking a lot of damage in pugs and in groups with undergeared people.

    @Aresius, I am working on getting the Mirror. In my post I said that I have both the stam trinkets from Magmaw and the Twin Dragons. The crab procs often so IMO it doesnt suck. The finger however isnt the greatest and that is the one I am working on replacing.

  9. #9
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    Sorry, overlooked that you had already the raiding stam trinkets
    (id definitely wear the Worm - mastery on a hotspot and a chunk of stamina. People are tending to look down on tanks having plenty stamina, but you cant overlook its still the most straightforward barrier to put between yourself and dying: a chunk of hp. As long as you arent overly sacrificing mitigation for it and making healing impossible, stamina is still a cruicial tanking stat).
    As for the Crab...
    I tried testing the crab proc myself some time ago but im quite terribad at putting up a decent log and spreedsheet so i let it go and trusted a few posts i read around.
    Acording to these the Crab had a internal CD limiting it to proc only every 80 seconds (which my testing did not disproove), and thus, at best (considering you get the proc again imediatly after its internal cd ends), it would have a 20% uptime.
    A more realistic would be on the house of 10% uptime considering your not alweys standing still hitting the boss, and may miss or simply not get the proc (10% chance to proc).
    I do think the proc is delicious, no complains on getting 21% block. But id rather have a reliable 4% from some other mastery trinket then this proc that might not be up when i actualy need it (why i like the Symbiotic worm- a smaller proc, but alweys when you need it).
    But if you have 10-15% dodge and parry, over 50% block and more then 150K hp unbuffed, your not squishy(statwise), and if someone tells you so, its likely they cant heal.
    Last edited by aresius; 05-09-2011 at 02:16 PM.

  10. #10
    Yeah I didn't mean to get a little testy with you. I will be wearing the worm as soon as I get the Mirror. The stats for tanking keep switching up which make it kind of hectic. I miss the old days of get 104% and defense capped and you were good to go.

    I havent tried to do take an instance yet I am waiting for a guild healer to log in so I can get an accurate opinion. I think a real big thing of it is the dps that we have had in pugs or just people messing around. Breaking CC on those mobs that can make the difference between a hectic pull and a walk in the park. I may have also just kamikaze'd my way into the groups and not really paid that much attention to it. After all its just a heroic.

  11. #11
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    Imo all those 60 stam gems and 101 stam gems need to be replaced with more mastery which will make your health drop slower and not be so "twitchy" or squishy as some people would say. My general rule of thumb is MOAR mastery, and then a lot moar mastery for good measure. Did I mention MOAR mastery? Just in case I didn't MOAR mastery.

  12. #12
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    I'm surprised no one said Moar Mastery.
    Jesus loves you seriously big time. He'd hug you until your eyeballs exploded out of your skull if he ever met you. He'd windsurf across the oceans of dead Nazis which he personally slaughtered to tell you that your new haircut is the bee's knees.. http://theoatmeal.com/comics/email

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meshuggah View Post
    I'm surprised no one said Moar Mastery.
    Quote Originally Posted by uglie View Post
    Imo all those 60 stam gems and 101 stam gems need to be replaced with more mastery
    orly?

  14. #14
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    I was being sarcastic.....
    Jesus loves you seriously big time. He'd hug you until your eyeballs exploded out of your skull if he ever met you. He'd windsurf across the oceans of dead Nazis which he personally slaughtered to tell you that your new haircut is the bee's knees.. http://theoatmeal.com/comics/email

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by uglie View Post
    Imo all those 60 stam gems and 101 stam gems need to be replaced with more mastery which will make your health drop slower and not be so "twitchy" or squishy as some people would say. My general rule of thumb is MOAR mastery, and then a lot moar mastery for good measure. Did I mention MOAR mastery? Just in case I didn't MOAR mastery.

    this

    and dont use mastery stam gems in red sockets.

    red- mastery parry
    blue mastery stam
    yellow master

    chimaera eye jc gems - 67 mastery.

    Mastery> parry+dodge>stam

    at least until hc mode content.
    justin.tv/Belligra

    Watch me play SC2 ladder and enjoy the lolz

  16. #16
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    Replace your gems with the above mentioned gemming suggestions.

    Reforge all your hit/Expertise to Mastery/dodge or Parry (Balance the two)


    I run with like 3 expertise and like 1.28% hit, of course there are times where I have troubles with threat, but pre-potting a golemblood usually solves all of the pre-vengeance problems you should face.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...iandrix/simple

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phitom-Eredar View Post
    I was thinking about getting the TB trinket and replacing Throngus' finger. I do pull a lot of dps. I do around 15k dps on aoe pulls and 9k on single target in dungeons. So say I fight that irritating urge to be hit/exp cap what should my hit and expertise be at? I worry about this because I dont want my threat to suffer.
    My warrior pulls almost 10k dps on boss and I've hit 28 to 30k on trash. I'm stacking mitigation and have like 3% hit. Its your job to survive and save the healer's mana. Its the dps' job to hit things hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    You know you just called yourself an asshat, right?

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