T12 set bonuses

[Disruptor]

So...they decrease the importance of mastery but they're making it even stronger? Therefore it will be nerfed?

I never used that reasoning. I do not understand why they increase avoidance but you could explain/legitimatize it with the new ICC/SW-like debuff they ll implement.
Our mastery is already the strongest ingame. This will increase its value by a good gap. Giving prot paladins an already flat 43% dmg decrease and warriors in firelands a medium-high uptime of 66% dmg decrease is too strong compared to DK/Feral (and even protpaladin).

EDIT:
We have the first hint for nerfing block mastery. Palas will only block 33% dmg instead of 43%. Let's see what Warriors will get.

[SageoftheTimes]

Wait, what? They give avoidance to then nerf it....brainhurt.

Also, a buff to tank damage is probably not too much of a problem, considering you'll only have 1-2 of them. If any abnormal increase is seen, they could just increase boss HP slightly to compensate.

[Illidra]

• The shield block value bonus from Eternal Earthsiege Diamond has been increased to 3%, up from 1%.

Omfg. Most people do not understand how strong this meta already is (including "wannabe" world top guild tanks) and they buff it to 300%. Hardcap mastery -> 66% less dmg and this is even more paradox to the 6% parry from T12. They will nerf Warrior mastery into the ground. Let's see when they will realize that.

Sorry for trolling but this one goes on me. For all people instantly criticizing my opinion and my statement of T12 being a design fail - there you go. Blizz realized how paradox and illogical this set bonus was and redesigned it. Served.

it's not a design FAIL, it's design re-optimization.

6% parry can't be a bad thing. the parry pushes you to mastery hard cap? great reforge that spare mastery into damage stats. dont need more damage? well then your boss kill just got shorter.

I have never claimed that they already nerfed anything. By giving us more avoidance they simply decrease the importance of mastery. And by increasing the meta they make the already strongest mitigation by far with the best scaling even more stronger. They have not yet realized how ridic strong it will be. You will see what I am talking about. They will nerf warrior mastery pretty hard.

so they're decreasing the importance of mastery? while making it stronger with the meta change? so by making it 'OP' as you phrase it, they make it less important.

dude your logic is, to be blunt, fucking ridiculous.

think before you type.


stop trolling.

and if you arent trolling then stop being ignorant and preaching false logic.

also please google the definition of paradox, parry = good mastery = good, more parry = more crit block = good, crit block capped = mastery reforge into damage stats = good, no paradox there.

[Booi]

He's referring to if you're statically hit capped and you get the 6% parry after shield block, the mastery above and beyond 102.4% table coverage will still be granting you critical block. It won't grant any more than it was already doing, but the mastery beyond the soft cap doesn't become useless because you got the 6% extra dodge, just less effective.

Sorry for taking a step back, but I thought I should point out that this is not the case.

Excess block is only converted to critical block while shield block is active.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=2565

[Reev]

Sorry for taking a step back, but I thought I should point out that this is not the case.

Excess block is only converted to critical block while shield block is active.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=2565

Shield Block will grant you extra crit block during shield block, but not during the 6% parry. During the 6% parry, mastery will still be granting you the critical block it always grants you. Mastery beyond the 102.4% won't grant you more crit block than it did before the 6% extra parry, but it's still giving you crit block, making it not useless, just not as strong as it is when the combat table wasn't covered without it.

If you read closely what I said there, I wasn't suggesting that the 6% parry pushes 6% more crit block onto the table when Shield Block isn't active.

[Booi]

Sorry, I see what you're saying now.

Good call.

[Katzazi]

My initial concern with the setbonus is not addressed by the change - if all it get even worse. SB just does too much. Sure it's easy to just take the buff of the set bonus and be happy with it. It will work fine and it's probably what we will do in most cases and I'm relatively fine with it. I think they realized that the former implementation was something like build-in CD-stacking which they probably want to not have.

Anyway, sometimes a player want to optimize all of the tools they have - like for example CD stacking or timing after each other. If a warrior with t12 tries to to this, it will be very hard to find the best moment, since the first few seconds will deal with magic dmg, meanwhile and shortly after the warrior is unhittable and crit block chance is higher, after that she has a little bit higher chance to avoid dmg, maybe so that she stays unhittable and a higher chance to increase crit blocks because of HtL (which again may cover the remaining 10s at least partly but will not be up for the next SB). If the boss has at least two dangerous abilities that you cannot cover with big CDs it will be quite hard to find the optimal time for SB (while it's easy to find a good moment for SB - it will cover most stuff somehow).


The new implementation also has a weird effect on the combination of SB and HtL. While SB is up, HtL would probably have the biggest effect (at least for realistic mastery values). But the higher parry chance kicks in after SB ends. So the highest chances for HtL will be around the middle of the time when SB is down (or shortly before it is off CD again).

All this is less of a problem for the other tank-classes. Their abilities only have one effect, they don't have stuff that procs from the avoidance and the time in between is longer - they will have comparable long times that will not be covered by the use of the CD.

I'm not sure, if all this will make warrior tanks a little bit more spiky dependent on the SB-"phase" they are in. If that is the case will probably depend on how high our mastery + avoid will be. They just announced that they don't want people to be able to cap mastery. But how near to the cap will we get? If it's quite close, those 6% parry may be something to let us close the gap (maybe together with an on-use-avoidance-trinket) to unhittable again. Which would be huge.

On the other hand the remark about not letting people be able to mastery-cap was addressed to paladins. And they get double the amount. So either the set-bonus will be their unhittable gap closing thing (like our original SB) or we will be quite far away and 6% parry will be quit less attractive (and tanking stats much lower than today which I don't think they will do). So if 12% parry will be enough to close the unhittable-gap for paladins, the setbonus get's even weirder (and much more attractive) for them: While divine protection is up, they get 20% less dmg flat. When it drops, they will have even higher ensured DR against melee hits (while the combination of DP+block is higher, but you cannot ensure the block while DP is up).


I think it would be a much better implementation to free the bonus from the ability-usage, so that it will be just a proc. Sure, it will be less appreciated than an on-use-effect. But it would remove some contra-intuitive effects. Maybe they would have to increase the effect somehow.

[Reev]

My initial concern with the setbonus is not addressed by the change - if all it get even worse. SB just does too much. Sure it's easy to just take the buff of the set bonus and be happy with it. It will work fine and it's probably what we will do in most cases and I'm relatively fine with it. I think they realized that the former implementation was something like build-in CD-stacking which they probably want to not have.

Anyway, sometimes a player want to optimize all of the tools they have - like for example CD stacking or timing after each other. If a warrior with t12 tries to to this, it will be very hard to find the best moment, since the first few seconds will deal with magic dmg, meanwhile and shortly after the warrior is unhittable and crit block chance is higher, after that she has a little bit higher chance to avoid dmg, maybe so that she stays unhittable and a higher chance to increase crit blocks because of HtL (which again may cover the remaining 10s at least partly but will not be up for the next SB). If the boss has at least two dangerous abilities that you cannot cover with big CDs it will be quite hard to find the optimal time for SB (while it's easy to find a good moment for SB - it will cover most stuff somehow).


The new implementation also has a weird effect on the combination of SB and HtL. While SB is up, HtL would probably have the biggest effect (at least for realistic mastery values). But the higher parry chance kicks in after SB ends. So the highest chances for HtL will be around the middle of the time when SB is down (or shortly before it is off CD again).

All this is less of a problem for the other tank-classes. Their abilities only have one effect, they don't have stuff that procs from the avoidance and the time in between is longer - they will have comparable long times that will not be covered by the use of the CD.

I'm not sure, if all this will make warrior tanks a little bit more spiky dependent on the SB-"phase" they are in. If that is the case will probably depend on how high our mastery + avoid will be. They just announced that they don't want people to be able to cap mastery. But how near to the cap will we get? If it's quite close, those 6% parry may be something to let us close the gap (maybe together with an on-use-avoidance-trinket) to unhittable again. Which would be huge.

On the other hand the remark about not letting people be able to mastery-cap was addressed to paladins. And they get double the amount. So either the set-bonus will be their unhittable gap closing thing (like our original SB) or we will be quite far away and 6% parry will be quit less attractive (and tanking stats much lower than today which I don't think they will do). So if 12% parry will be enough to close the unhittable-gap for paladins, the setbonus get's even weirder (and much more attractive) for them: While divine protection is up, they get 20% less dmg flat. When it drops, they will have even higher ensured DR against melee hits (while the combination of DP+block is higher, but you cannot ensure the block while DP is up).


I think it would be a much better implementation to free the bonus from the ability-usage, so that it will be just a proc. Sure, it will be less appreciated than an on-use-effect. But it would remove some contra-intuitive effects. Maybe they would have to increase the effect somehow.

I think you're making this more complicated than it is. Shield Block still has 2 effects. Magic damage reduction and physical damage reduction. The parry part doesn't change the way it handled physical damage before. It just tacks an additional 10 seconds of reduced physical damage onto the end of the original effect. If the magic is more likely to kill you, you use it then. If the physical is more likely to kill you, you use it then. You're not going to change how you use chained cooldowns because of this, except that you may be able to chain them longer.

[swelt]

I think you're making this more complicated than it is. Shield Block still has 2 effects. Magic damage reduction and physical damage reduction. The parry part doesn't change the way it handled physical damage before. It just tacks an additional 10 seconds of reduced physical damage onto the end of the original effect. If the magic is more likely to kill you, you use it then. If the physical is more likely to kill you, you use it then. You're not going to change how you use chained cooldowns because of this, except that you may be able to chain them longer.

I agree, and would go on to say that 10 seconds of 6% parry is pretty trivial. Sure, on average it will make you take less damage, but it's unlikely that you will ever thing "I must wear my 4pc bonus for this fight, that 6% parry sure will save the day". That's my remaining objection to this set bonus - it's boring and it will not make a significant difference to anything. Whether or not that's a bad thing in itself is certainly open to debate. In the past, certain set bonuses have been used as a means to gate content (X hardmode is much easier with Y set bonus, e.g. chimeron becomes easier with 4pc t11). Having a tank set bonus which is largely ignorable may actually be a good thing. Just a boring good thing...

[Katzazi]

6% parry for themselve is not much. But if we can reach unhittable (or get very close) with them (for example with trinket-usage) it can make a big difference. It depends how high our other survival values will be.