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Thread: T12 set bonuses

  1. #1
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    T12 set bonuses

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/search?q=T12

    warriors gets weakest bonuses again ?

  2. #2
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    No, they don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal
    ...there is no true progression for a casual anymore, just hand outs.

  3. #3
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    6% avoidance for 10 seconds every 30 seconds is the same as 12% avoidance for 10 seconds every 60 (well it is over a longer boss fight when you average it out)

    can't help but notice that the paladin 4set is practically identical to the T10 4set bonus (just with divine protection instead of divine plea).

  4. #4
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    Re: T12 set bonuses

    The point of DP is to mitigate incoming damage, not necessarily melee damage. So parry boost is, at best, sometimes not stupid. This bonus is as useless as all the other pally bonuses I've seen. This is why I'm not upset about missing the set bonuses by wearing the T11 DPS legs.

  5. #5
    The tank set is pretty retarded. You want to use SB to utilize mastery especially when HtL is active. But by increasing parry with SB you want to use SB to increase SB's block value which is kinda odd. You will decrease your overall parry to stay in balance with dodge which decreases value of mastery because HtL uptime over a whole SB will be way lower. ---> GG no brain Devs

  6. #6
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    Disruptor, I sure hope you never tank for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal
    ...there is no true progression for a casual anymore, just hand outs.

  7. #7
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    While I think that more parry on click is nice, I'm not happy with the warrior bonus.

    SB already does so much. It has a threat component, is already useful against melee dmg spikes and is our only spell dmg CD. 4.1 introduces SB to be used for magic spikes. The timing for the magic reduction is quite strict since it has a much shorter window. So if you need the magic reduction you cannot use SB to cover both a melee spike followed by a magic spike (it's possible with for example Divine Protection). It's hard to decide which is the best moment for SB already. To add another melee CD to it does not help.

    Another point is that while SB is up, it's the time where we need additional parry the least. We already are unhitabel. Sure, parry is better than block when we are unhitable. But if you look closer those 6% will push us into unhitable anyway, at least if they don't change the numbers we need too much. So all the original element of SB - which is actually the higher chance to block - does not kick in. Instead we will see 6% higher chances to get a crit block when we block (which is not the same).

    And even while 6% every 30s looks the same as 12% every 60s, it's not. It only would be if the incoming dmg does not change. But that's not the case. There are spikes. If you get few high spikes, the 12% every 60s is much better, because you can cover all important parts of the encounter by your increased parry chance. You can also cover those moments with the 30s CD, but only get 6% for each occurrence. Sure you can cover other parts of the encounter, too, but as long as there is no other spike to cover, it does not help you as much as if you could cover the big spike. On the other hand something that occurs every 30s in most cases is less dangerous than stuff that occurs on a 1m or higher CD. So while you can cover those encounter elements better with the shorter CD, it's less helpful, since well it's less dangerous to begin with.

    I doubt that anybody would value the set bonus CDs the same as 2% higher parry all the time - which would be the same if you even it out.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Martie View Post
    Disruptor, I sure hope you never tank for me.
    Why would I want to tank for you? It is pretty obvious that 4pc is rather destructive than helpful. It will be an overall avoidance increase but sacrifices mitigation which is basically multiplicative more important than avoidance. Especially with Firelands when mastery hard caps will be in range.

  9. #9
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    @Disruptor: higher parry favors more mastery (at least until hit-cap) and higher mastery favors more parry. So it's nice that it give more parry instead of more dodge to begin with. And since the set bonus gives a fixed percentage you even don't have to think about diminishing returns.

    To your last comment: Avoidance is better than mitigation when we get to the "hard caps".

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martie View Post
    Disruptor, I sure hope you never tank for me.
    Comments like this don't help a conversation whatsoever and incite arguments. Explain yourself a bit more clearly instead of immediately bashing someone's opinion.

    This is the ONLY warning I'm giving everyone in this thread. Play nice. We're all bright individuals who know how to speak to each other. Don't disappoint me.

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  11. #11
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    @Disruptor

    how does it sacrafice mitigation?

    lets assume our average warrior joe has 15% parry, 15%dodge, 5% chance to be missed, and 50% block (and so 30% chance to critically block) on average his block will be stopping 39% of the damage

    with SB active he has 15% parry, 15%dodge, 5% chance to be missed, and 75% block, and since this puts him over 100% block +avoidance the extra block is turned into crit block (so he now has a 40% chance fro his blocks to be critical), so his Block now stops 42% of the damage

    with the new 4pc and shield block active he now has 27% parry, 15%dodge, 5% chance to be missed, and 75% block, and since this puts him over 100% block +avoidance the extra block is turned into crit block (so he now has a 62% chance fro his blocks to be critical), so his Block now stops 48.6% of the damage.

    but becuase his Parry chance is also higher, his HtL time is also higher. Joe's 4pc tier12 nigh doubles his chance to proc it, which can only have a positive effect on its uptime.
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 05-05-2011 at 04:37 AM.

  12. #12
    The psychology behind that is not logical. SB is a CD to increase the value of mitigation. HtL utilizes that mitigation. But the 4pc wants you to use SB to make SB more worth. It will be a matter of RNG if HtL procs within SB or not. If you advance into T12 with the same relation of dodge and parry you will want to lower parry to balance DRs. This explains my statement of decreasing the value of mitigation. And those hard caps won't be easy reachable. Mastery hardcap due to gear will happen in T13-T14. I will def. skip 4PC to use better itemized slots since I am sure they screwed gear design again.
    Tengenstein is right to say we got the best out of the tank bonus. But it is still hardly anything worth. HtL increases parry value by somewhere around 5-10%? and warriors do have the lowest rating of avoidance.
    Last edited by Disruptor; 05-05-2011 at 04:30 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katzazi View Post
    While I think that more parry on click is nice, I'm not happy with the warrior bonus.

    SB already does so much.
    This is exactly what I thought. I mean, I guess there's a nice synergy between the slight additional parry chance + hold the line, but seriously, can't they stop piling more and more things on top of shield block?

    Looking across the various tanking classes, I don't like any of the bonuses. Best is probably DKs DRW as there at least it's an avoidance cooldown that gets more avoidance. For warriors, 6% parry is just a single prayer to the RNG god, but it's on a kitchen sink defensive / rotational cooldown. Druids/paladins add a bit of avoidance to a flat damage reducing cooldown. Point being that those cooldowns are often timed for magic bursts, not physical damage, so layering a small avoidance on top seems nonsensical.

    Leaving the theory aside, they are also pretty damned BORING for 4pc set bonuses. Probably just a cue to go offset.
    Last edited by swelt; 05-05-2011 at 05:04 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disruptor View Post
    you will want to lower parry to balance DRs.
    No.

    DR affects parry chance form ratings. Not parry chance from buffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disruptor View Post
    But it is still hardly anything worth. HtL increases parry value by somewhere around 5-10%? and warriors do have the lowest rating of avoidance.
    um we have the same avoidance as paladins and Deathknights last i checked except we get alot more out of parry. this bonus gives us more parry. no other class reaches unhittable, except paladins, and as soon as they do their mastery goes from being their best stat, to worthless. so their four piece is kinda not necassarily as good as it seems. in my example, Joe is gaining 12% parry, and 12% critical block...compared to the other tanking classes thats kinda...imba

  15. #15
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    you will still want probabyl 2% more parry than dodge, the 4 piece is effectively providing crit block aswell as parry, warriors have the same if not better avoidance than other classes, stop complaining.
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  16. #16
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    Its 6% parry when we least need it. If we get to unhittable next tier we'll be around 75% crit block during shieldblock not counting HtL. If it activates at the same time as shieldblock we won't get the 6% extra crit block out of it i think. Averages out a bit less then 1% damage reduction, not so exciting...
    The only redeeming quality i can see is that there is a bigger chance on HtL procs that can carry over a bit after shieldblock. Now maybe if the boss gets enraged for 10 secs every 30 secs.

  17. #17
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    Kind of self defeating to use T11 gear set for a T12 bonus. But just keep in mind that shield block gets better with more gear, so these numbers will simply improve.

    no Shield Block
    4.4% miss
    16% parry
    12% dodge
    56% block (41% crit block w/50% avg htl)
    average damage reduction = 56.88% reduction

    Shield Block is typically:
    4.4% miss
    16% parry
    12% dodge
    67.6% block (54.4% crit block w/50% avg htl) (13.4% overflow)
    average damage reduction of 64.76%

    4 piece Shield Block: (if you don't get the critical block)
    4.4% miss
    22% parry
    12% dodge
    61.6% block (54.4% crit block w/50% avg htl) (13.4% overflow (sort of))
    average damage reduction of 67.88%


    4 piece Shield Block: (if you get the critical block)
    4.4% miss
    22% parry
    12% dodge
    61.6% block (60.4% crit block w/50% avg htl) (19.4% overflow)
    average damage reduction of 69.02%


    Shield Block: 18.27% damage reduction
    4 set Shield Block: 25.51% damage reduction (if you don't get the crit block)
    4 set Shield Block: 28.15% damage reduction (if you get the crit block)

    This makes shield block 40% better than it currently is (or 54% if you get the 6% critical block)

    If 4 set gave:
    Shield Wall now reduces 40% more damage would you be likely to complain? It seems pretty similar to 50% longer duration of the T11 set bonus.

    Updated to include the values assuming you get 6% critical block, and assuming you don't.
    Last edited by Booi; 05-05-2011 at 07:16 AM.
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  18. #18
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    Booi I have no idea how they will implement it but i doubt it will add 6% crit block as well. Shieldblock only checks once when its used how much crit blocks it gives, but we can hope

    edit:
    To clarify, shieldblock isn't dynamic as far as i know it only checks your avoidance ratings once at the start. Kinda hard to test this but the buff icon that displays the critical block increase at least doesn't update. I'm afraid that with the 4 piece it will go like use shieldblock>check avoidance ratings>add 25% block + x% crit block+6% parry.
    Last edited by Bigbad; 05-05-2011 at 08:58 AM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbad View Post
    Booi I have no idea how they will implement it but i doubt it will add 6% crit block as well. Shieldblock only checks once when its used how much crit blocks it gives, but we can hope
    Bigbad, 6% parry means 6% less of the combat table for Shield block to cover, which means 6% more overflow into critical block. So yes, you'll get 6% more crit block with the 4 piece bonus.

    Edit: unless, as I think you may be saying, the parry is given after the crit block from Shield Block is calculated. Seems like that would be a really crappy way to set this up though. Don't know why the parry wouldn't be put in the calculation first.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbad View Post
    Booi I have no idea how they will implement it but i doubt it will add 6% crit block as well. Shieldblock only checks once when its used how much crit blocks it gives, but we can hope
    excellent point (I hadn't thought of that).
    But if you use a dodge trinket after you hit shield block - i've always assumed it pushed up your critical block.
    "I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"

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