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Thread: Thoughts on change to Retaliation, Recklessness, Shield Wall stance requirements.

  1. #1
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    Thoughts on change to Retaliation, Recklessness, Shield Wall stance requirements.

    • Retaliation, Recklessness and Shield Wall no longer have stance requirements.

    Sounds pretty awesome to me!

    For warrior tanks popping recklessness and retaliation for a pull....talk about major snap aggro!

    For Fury warriors if you already had a weapon swapping macro/stance dance to pop shield wall during certain encounters (shame on you if you don't!) this will save all of your rage.

    Pretty freaking cool. I don't know how Retaliation will help a fury warrior...but mabey popping shield wall taunt and retaliation when the tanks die and a boss is at 1%?

    Your thoughts.....

  2. #2
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    All the benefits that are there, I can't help but think "more buttons for an already cluttered bar"
    "I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"

  3. #3
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    I have a feeling that they will share a cooldown, so that it's shield wall OR retaliation OR recklessness. I don't see myself as likely to use Retal or Reck except under very situational circumstances as prot, but I suppose it could happen, and it would be a benefit to be sure.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
    I'm empty and aching and I don't know why
    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
    They've all gone to look for America

  4. #4
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    You currently can't pop any of the three while the buff from another is active. Reck still increases damage taken by 20% and was recently changed to be a 12 second duration effect rather than the charge-based one it was in the past, limiting it's usefulness for threat generation further unless you wish to be pretty reckless (yes, I know...). Shield Wall requires a shield to activate and the effect is removed when you unequip a shield. Retaliation should prove handy for snap aggro on melee packs.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raysere View Post
    You currently can't pop any of the three while the buff from another is active. Reck still increases damage taken by 20% and was recently changed to be a 12 second duration effect rather than the charge-based one it was in the past, limiting it's usefulness for threat generation further unless you wish to be pretty reckless (yes, I know...). Shield Wall requires a shield to activate and the effect is removed when you unequip a shield. Retaliation should prove handy for snap aggro on melee packs.
    If you can use them in succession and they don't share cooldowns, this could be very nice. Recklessness would be quite handy for the times the other tank has the boss and you want to get in a bit of dps.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
    I'm empty and aching and I don't know why
    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
    They've all gone to look for America

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raysere View Post
    Reck still increases damage taken by 20% and was recently changed to be a 12 second duration effect rather than the charge-based one it was in the past, limiting it's usefulness for threat generation further unless you wish to be pretty reckless (yes, I know...).
    What do you mean? Its been buffed, you can now fit your entire opener under its effect and still have almost a GCD left.

  7. #7
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    YAY! more buttons! anyone know how to dual weild keyboards?

  8. #8
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    1 - shockwave/concussion blow cast sequence
    shift 1 - potion
    2 - rend
    shift 2 - battle shout
    3 - demo shout
    shift 3 - intimidating shout
    4 - thunderclap
    shift 4 - piercing howl when applicable
    5 - shield block
    shift 5 - mount
    shift 6 - vigilance
    Q - charge/pummel main target
    shift Q - intercept
    E - devastate w/hs, cleave, none (depending on action page)
    shift E - devastates without hs, cleave (regardless of action page)
    R - revenge w/hs, cleave, none (depending on action page) (colossus smash if battle)
    shift R - revenge without hs, cleave (regardless of action page) (colossus smash if battle)
    F - shield slam w/hs, cleave, none (depending on action page)
    shift F - shield slam without hs, cleave (regardless of action page)
    G - escape artist
    shift G - trinket
    T - pummels focus if exists, else just pummel
    Y - victory rush/HS
    Z - taunt
    X - berserker rage
    shift X - disarm
    C - spell reflect
    shift C - heroic throw (mouseover if exists, else just target)
    V - intervene
    shift V - enraged regeneration
    B - super taunt... what the truck is this really called. why have i forgotten. damn you freya
    mouse 1 - heroic leap
    mouse 2 - mouse over taunt
    mouse 3 - last stand
    shift mouse 3 - shield wall
    ctrl mouse 3 - rallying cry
    mouse wheel up - HS
    mouse wheel down - Cleave
    ` - puts target on focus
    ctrl Q - HS dump action page
    ctrl F - Cleave dump action page
    shift Y - no dumb action page

    and keybinds for all raid markers.

    open to suggestions but it is looking like...
    shift Z, 6, H (shift z used to be mocking blow - and i still hit it sometimes :P)
    H might be okay.
    H and shift H... lalala

    Anyone running any gimmicks to streamline keybinds a bit?
    39 keybinds not counting action pages/raid targets.
    Last edited by Booi; 05-03-2011 at 07:29 AM.
    "I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"

  9. #9
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    I don't know if y'all read GC's latest blog on abilities. He specifically mentions that he is targeting cluttered bars. While I applaud the move and would definitely use it, this goes against what he just specifically said is the direction they are moving towards for all classes. Warriors already have a lot of abilities (I would not say they are cluttered, but it does take a lot more work than the "4 core abilities" in the ele shaman example given). So this means they will give this to us, but prune other stuff. Take Pummel replacing Shield Bash, pretty small, but other consolidations may not be so small.

  10. #10
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    Give us heroic leap, nerf intercept but still leave it there.
    Just keep your heroic leap blizzard
    "I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kopcap View Post
    What do you mean? Its been buffed, you can now fit your entire opener under its effect and still have almost a GCD left.
    While taking 20% more damage which is totally and utterly contrary to your primary responsibility.

    This change is most likely primarily to provide Arms access to reck without clumsily stance dancing just to do so.

  12. #12
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    .. Mind telling us when was the last time you died during the first 9 seconds of a pull while you are completely and utterly covered by a shield block?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kopcap View Post
    .. Mind telling us when was the last time you died during the first 9 seconds of a pull while you are completely and utterly covered by a shield block?
    You shouldn't even be taking the risk. It's not worth it.

  14. #14
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    Dude. Your wrong. If you are not, please get better healers.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booi View Post
    1 - shockwave/concussion blow cast sequence
    shift 1 - potion
    2 - rend
    shift 2 - battle shout
    3 - demo shout
    shift 3 - intimidating shout
    4 - thunderclap
    shift 4 - piercing howl when applicable
    5 - shield block
    shift 5 - mount
    shift 6 - vigilance
    Q - charge/pummel main target
    shift Q - intercept
    E - devastate w/hs, cleave, none (depending on action page)
    shift E - devastates without hs, cleave (regardless of action page)
    R - revenge w/hs, cleave, none (depending on action page) (colossus smash if battle)
    shift R - revenge without hs, cleave (regardless of action page) (colossus smash if battle)
    F - shield slam w/hs, cleave, none (depending on action page)
    shift F - shield slam without hs, cleave (regardless of action page)
    G - escape artist
    shift G - trinket
    T - pummels focus if exists, else just pummel
    Y - victory rush/HS
    Z - taunt
    X - berserker rage
    shift X - disarm
    C - spell reflect
    shift C - heroic throw (mouseover if exists, else just target)
    V - intervene
    shift V - enraged regeneration
    B - super taunt... what the truck is this really called. why have i forgotten. damn you freya
    mouse 1 - heroic leap
    mouse 2 - mouse over taunt
    mouse 3 - last stand
    shift mouse 3 - shield wall
    ctrl mouse 3 - rallying cry
    mouse wheel up - HS
    mouse wheel down - Cleave
    ` - puts target on focus
    ctrl Q - HS dump action page
    ctrl F - Cleave dump action page
    shift Y - no dumb action page

    and keybinds for all raid markers.

    open to suggestions but it is looking like...
    shift Z, 6, H (shift z used to be mocking blow - and i still hit it sometimes :P)
    H might be okay.
    H and shift H... lalala

    Anyone running any gimmicks to streamline keybinds a bit?
    39 keybinds not counting action pages/raid targets.
    No way in hell I'd bind all of that. You don't need to bind half of what you have up there. Binds are for keys you need to get at immediately in a twitchy sort of manner. For things like Demo Shout which you use once per 45 seconds, clicking it is perfectly fine, IMO. My action bars feel just fine to me.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
    I'm empty and aching and I don't know why
    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
    They've all gone to look for America

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raysere View Post
    While taking 20% more damage which is totally and utterly contrary to your primary responsibility.

    This change is most likely primarily to provide Arms access to reck without clumsily stance dancing just to do so.
    Highly situational, but as was pointed out earlier, if you have a moment where you are DPSing but off the boss while the other tank has aggro, it could work, you aren't expected to have aggro so the increased damage is moot, or perhaps you are on caster adds with long interruptible/spell-reflectable spells and can afford 3 special attacks without taking damage.

    Bears in the past frequently popped enrage (previously it used to incurr a significant armor/damage penalty) but pop barkskin to go with it. Similarly, one could pop recklessness + shield block (or a bigger CD). I agree with you, not my cup of tea, but yeah it's workable.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booi View Post
    Anyone running any gimmicks to streamline keybinds a bit?
    I stopped using action page swaps and upped my modifier. Looks like you're only using one modifier (shift).. what's about ctrl/capslock/alt?

    I'm using 1 2 3 4 5 q e r t y f g c v mouse1 mouse2 mousewheelup mousewheeldown + shift and ctrl for 95% of my abilities and capslock as modifier for the rest and moving with wasd. You macroed hs/cleave to a lot of abilities while you're also using your mousewheel to spam them. I just stick to my wheel and keep my keyboard save from the pressure

    Ontopic: Not having to hassle around with stance dancing while counting down for the pull is a great relief. But i really doubt they'll allow popping all of them together, the internal cooldown will remain.

    @Reev
    Clicking things i use frequently in fight don't feel very smooth to me. I use demoshout when it fits in like running away from a explosion (glaciate anyone?) and can't see any benefits in distangling my fingers in disadvantage of my reaction time. And for demoshout, it only applies half of the time when it really have to... eye-brain-finger coordination after realising it didn't apply would take me a while. Having about 40ish binds for infight situation isn't easy to master but once you get used to them it's a huge step up when anything goes wrong and your heart is running at 200 bpm.
    Last edited by klausi; 05-03-2011 at 07:59 AM.

  18. #18
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    I use ` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 Q E and 3 mouse buttons as keybinds. Everything else is quite clickable because it's not anything I have to spam or reach super quickly.

    ` - Push to Talk
    1 - Warbringer macro
    2 - Revenge
    3 - Devastate
    4 - Shield Slam
    5 - Heroic Strike
    6 - Taunt
    7 - Thunderclap
    8 - Pummel
    9 - Rend
    0 - Shockwave
    Q - Strafe Left
    E - Strafe Right
    Mouse button 3 - Back up
    Mouse button 4 - Autorun
    Mouse Button 5 - Cleave

    Everything else is clickable on bars. I could probably stand to put Concussion Blow on a keybind somewhere, but nothing else really needs to be bound, imo.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
    I'm empty and aching and I don't know why
    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
    They've all gone to look for America

  19. #19
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    if only they'd remove the requirement for shattering throw, /le sigh

    Guess I'll post my bindings too. I actually have a lot of stuff bound. I still haven't found a good way to do cleave/HS, honestly I have one on 2 (if it's more AoE, then I put cleave, there, if it's single target, put HS there) and put the other on like 9 or something and keep my bars unlocked and move them into position as necessary. I can't hit 9 fast, so usually I end up just clicking that if I need it. I tried the mwup/mwdown stuff for cleave/HS, but I just move the zoom on my camera around way too much, I can't do that.

    For stance dancing:
    Shift a = battle stance
    sheft s = d stance
    sheft d = zerker stance
    This way I can quickly and easily switch between stances without even taking my fingers off the WASD keys. It's really handy and has worked great for me.

    Others:
    1 - Devastate
    2 - HS or Cleave
    3 - Revenge
    4 - Shield Slam
    5 - Rend
    6 - Shield Block
    7 - Zerker Rage
    Shift 1 - Charge
    Shift 2 - Battle Shout or Commanding Shout, the other gets bound to Z
    Shift 3 - Demo Shout
    Shift 4 - PH if I'm PH spec, I think it's intimidating shout otherwise
    Shift 5 - Challenging Shout, usually click this one though for some reason
    Ctrl + E = Heroic Throw
    Ctrl + F = Charge + Heroic Throw macro
    F1 = last stand
    Q = trinket
    E = Shockwave
    F = Thudnerclap
    G = Focus
    M5 = Pummel
    M4 = Heroic Leap
    Things I click:
    Shield Wall
    Intervene
    Healthstone

    Edit: oh ya, I have taunt bound to caps lock and enraged regen bound to `
    Last edited by Aggathon; 05-03-2011 at 08:25 AM.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by klausi View Post
    I stopped using action page swaps and upped my modifier. Looks like you're only using one modifier (shift).. what's about ctrl/capslock/alt?
    Just a quick search for a [mod:caps lock] macro syntax came up with a methodology that required editing a windows registry entry. Am i missing the elegant solution?
    "I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"

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