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Thread: Keep dodge no higher than 10.518%

  1. #1
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    Keep dodge no higher than 10.518%

    and mastery no higher than 10.139%. True?



    I have been using the field manual updated Feb 9 on Elitist Jerks for specific advice on stats. I really have been depressed about only having 12.5% each dodge and parry, since other tanks tell me they have 25%+ of each, but now I find this. I went back and re-read the EJ article and still don't see it there, and was in the process of looking through tankspot for confirmation, and thought I'd just ask. So, see below. Is this correct information? Tanks in advance for any help on this.

    From field manual on a website, or maybe it's a blog, www.ferociousinspiration.net
    For protection paladins this might surprise you but the soft cap against mastery is 10% dodge or Parry. Most of us will have more than this, but above 10% you can reforge dodge and parry into mastery and GAIN mitigation. You even out damage by getting to the 102.4% making it easier on everyone.
    Actual percentage where mastery is better than parry. 10.139%
    Actual percentage where mastery is better than dodge. 10.5182%




  2. #2
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    Get for as much mastery as you can get and than try to get equal dodge and parry ratings. I'll probably have more than 10% of them after that, anyway. But you'll get as close to 102.4% as possible doing that. (Only exception if you already are at 102.4% than dodge and parry are better.)

  3. #3
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    (Only exception if you already are at 102.4% than dodge and parry are better.)
    This is not possible in this tier of content.

    Keep in mind also this information is in regards to paladins.... and to be honest I would head over to maintankadin to see what Theck has been saying for 'caps' for paladins... he's pretty much the paladin theorycrafter, bringer of math and headaches.
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  4. #4
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    Just because mastery becomes more valuable than dodge per stat point above a certain value doesn't mean that dodge beyond that value is useless.

  5. #5
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    You will never reach a point where Dodge Rating reaches its hard cap (where dodge rating has no value). You actually will however likely reach a point where Mastery Rating does reach a hard cap in later tiers, however there is no actual set number for this cap. It is variable because block is the first event pushed off the combat table once the 102.4% threshold is reached, what combination of avoidance and block reaches 102.4% could be variable. Like MellvarTank said, this is currently unattainable, so since Mastery is higher in value than Dodge or Parry and you can't reach the hard cap on Mastery (yet), you would continue to prioritize Mastery over Dodge and Parry.

    What is discussed there is not a cap on dodge. It's the break even point where 1 point of Dodge Rating = 1 point of Mastery Rating in terms of statistical value. Since Dodge is subject to Deminishing Returns, Dodge's value point for point decreases gradually with each point you gain. So if that's the point where they are exactly even in value, Mastery is higher in value beyond that. That does not mean the value of dodge is 0. You will never reach the dodge hard cap as a paladin tank (where DR reaches the point that Dodge Rating now has no value). You could very well reach the Mastery hard cap in a later tier where the value of additional Mastery is 0 because any additional block is beyond the 102.4% for the combat table.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MellvarTank View Post
    This is not possible in this tier of content.
    It's totally possible for paladins. See link, requires roughly 7.500 combined avoidance + migitation rating.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MellvarTank View Post
    This is not possible in this tier of content.

    Keep in mind also this information is in regards to paladins.... and to be honest I would head over to maintankadin to see what Theck has been saying for 'caps' for paladins... he's pretty much the paladin theorycrafter, bringer of math and headaches.
    I think it is for pallies, they get 2.25% block per point of mastery - someone had a CharDev profile with mostly heroic gear, but no gems for mastery that was over 102.4%. But pallies don't have crit block, do they?
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  8. #8
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    no, we don't have critical block, but we get another 10% block value from holy shield for 40% total (or just over 41% with the eternal shadowspirit meta gem).

  9. #9
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    Your link, it shows that you don't understand the terms.

    Avoidance = Chance to be missed + Dodge + parry

    You cannot have 90+% avoidance

    Mitigation = Chance to reduce a portion of the damage (generally, Shield Block, armor, magic resistances, and static damage reduction). Things like resistances and armor are not factored in here, only shield block.

    102.4% is your chance to not be hit fully by a melee hit. it's either missed, dodged, parried, or blocked.

    Also, I'm not seeing where they took DR into account.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MellvarTank View Post
    This is not possible in this tier of content.

    Keep in mind also this information is in regards to paladins.... and to be honest I would head over to maintankadin to see what Theck has been saying for 'caps' for paladins... he's pretty much the paladin theorycrafter, bringer of math and headaches.
    I wrote the ferociousinspiration.net column and give credit to Theck in it. He is the only guy I read and everything was taken from metlab in terms of percentages for DI on dodge and parry versus mastery.

    I also had a warrior friend try out stacking mastery for shield block and his healers noticed instantly he was easier to heal because of the lack of spike damage.

    The best way I've heard it explained when thinking of dodge/parry versus mastery for block on paladins is this. Every full melee hit you take is +40% damage.
    Last edited by Gordrin; 04-22-2011 at 08:05 AM.

  11. #11
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    Keep dodge no higher than 10.518%

    Let me get this right in my head are people saying we should reforge dodge/parry to mastery ?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosakleb View Post
    Let me get this right in my head are people saying we should reforge dodge/parry to mastery ?
    Yes! If an item has Dodge / Parry rating you should indeed reforge into mastery.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MellvarTank View Post
    This is not possible in this tier of content.
    Definitely possible for paladins, and I'm almost positive it's possible for warriors too. You'd need to be a night elf with JC/BS and alch + full BiS.

  14. #14
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    Keep dodge no higher than 10.518%

    As to reforging dodge/parry...

    Sometimes you will want to. The best gear has dodge/parry and mastery already on it. That gear you reforge to get the best balance of dodge and parry. ie if you have too much dodge reforge dodge->parry.

    More often, the gear will have say dodge and hit. In most cases there you will reforge hit-> mastery. However, sometimes the stats aren't balanced and you have say 220 dodge and 110 hit. In a case like that, often reforging dodge -> mastery will yield more overall combat table coverage.
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  15. #15
    sifu: how did you come to the conclusion that reforging an avoidance stat into another would be a gain over reforging a threat stat into avoidance stat? Even though we have a higher dodge rating than hit on your example piece it will not be beneficial to keep that hit.

  16. #16
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    This is for Pallys, which is the OP - the same holds true for warriors - but the threshold for reforging survival versus threat stats is slightly higher since warriors get 1.5% block per mastery, not 2.25% (though we get crit block % too).

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=76671

    Each ~179 rating points of mastery is equal to 2.25% block. Not subject to diminishing returns.
    Each ~179 rating points of dodge/parry is equal to 1% dodge/parry, subject to diminishing returns (for example, at 1500 rating, it takes ~223 rating to reach the % of dodge/parry due to diminishing returns).

    Since the goal is 97.4% dodge/parry/block with the final 5% coming from the base chance of a boss to miss, then effectively block = 225%+ the value of dodge/parry.

    So, say you have gear with 200 dodge and 100 expertise. That 200 dodge is going to be worth ~.95% dodge or so after diminishing returns. So:

    Option A: You reforge the expertise into mastery. You get 40 mastery. 40/179 = .22346 mastery So .22346 * 2.25 = .503% block.
    Result = ~.897% dodge (assuming 1500 dodge for the heck of it which is 200/223 for effective doge) + .503% block = 1.4% dodge/parry/block towards block capped (unhittable).

    Option B: You reforge the dodge into mastery. You get 80 mastery. 80/179 = .44693 mastery. So .44693 * 2.25 = 1.006% block, already more than the dodge you would get. And say you're at 1500 dodge, so you need 223 rating i think for the next full % of dodge, you're looking at 160/223 = .718% dodge. Which is now 1.006% block + .718% dodge = 1.7186% dodge/parry/block towards being block capped (unhittable).

    So Option B 1.7186 - option A 1.4 = a gain of +0.3186% dodge/parry/block toward the block cap (unhittable).

    The greater the gap between the survival stat and the threat stat, the greater the value of reforging the survival stat.

    The greater the current rating of the survival stat, because of diminishing returns on the survival stat, the greater the *compartively* greater the return on reforging the survival stat (because due to diminishing returns, you're actually giving up less dodge/parry after diminishing returns for the same amount of mastery = block).
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

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