Time to Address the Tank Queueing Problem

[Bovinity]

even LK after a while you just intuitively knew, "it's time for Defile" even before DBM screamed.

It would have been awesome if Arthas actually said that. "It's time for Defile!" =D

[Fatæ]

I am not a great tank, but I listen and I improve. I have met some great players who I wish I could friend but they are on different realms. I have yet to take down Ozruk in heroic mostly because it never came up on random yet. The only time I have been in there is when the guild pulled me in as a replacement to a tank who dropped. I wiped a few times on Ozruk and bowed out. After that night, I actually enjoy PUGs since it allows me an anonymous fail to learn the dungeons. It took me awhile of feeling bad and not running to evolve into a PUGs are good attitude. The Pug allows me to work on my mechanics guilt free aso when I am with the guild I look like a pro. I use the tool what it is for, an easy method of getting into a dungeon.

Personally, I am looking forward to downing Ozruk when I am called again for the task. It will be a true achievement (Hey Bliz, can you make and acheive for tanks who wiped five times before dowing him?)

Well as you im not the best tank eather everyone can still improve and me too, like you did, i also met some great players too also on different realms but most of the time its late at night. Wel i cheer on you that you enjoy PUGs sadly i cant chare the same feeling. My encounters with pugs where 7/10 badly mooded runs and after a while you get sick of those, so im entierly dependant of running guild runs or friends on the same server.

There for the bashing has to be only on me by other players, but also on the healer and on other dps players in the group, i just can't have it its not my way.

Thats how i feel about it.

regards

[Riz]

Ozruk was brought up as a single example of why "some" players, who would otherwise be glad to queue up as a Tank, may decline to do so..No one has said they are blaming every fail, or blizz for this entire shortage of tanks...Ozruk was merely an example for the reason of difficulty, and the impatients of players, to allow for a learning curve...You HAVE to experience Ozruk to understand that particular encounter..That one is a trial and error fight..Some learn faster than others..

Its Common sense that we need 3 dps per tank..So naturally a dps que is indeed longer...Obviously theres a smaller amount of tanks in que at certain times of day or week, else id have instant ques as a healer as i do when i tank...Its lierally instant when i que as tank, and anywhere from instant to 15mins as healer...Again, depends on the time...Tuesdays are gonna be different as many ppl are hitting their BH, BoT, BWD, etc for raid resets...Early morning many people may be doin their dailies...Try queing after 12noon, and youlfind many more ppl in que since instances reset...


P.S. -I still say, if we had friendlier attitudes while running these randoms, we'd had mroe willingness to tank from majority of the wow community...We all know, 9/10 players are rude, inpatient, and unwilling to let a new tank, or inexperienced tank to said encounter, learn!

[Contravene]

If Stonecore comes up I decide if I want to deal with Ozruk today.. Most the time I roll my eyes and suck it up but this single dungeon among all the others can have me politely excuse myself. This is precisely one of the things Blizzard could do to to help the tank shortage situation.. Ozruk is a confidence breaker for tanks but very unjustifiably so.. It is a stupid dance you do with your Tank and you just gotta learn the dance. And the achievement should be for Ozruk not like we are wiping to the High Priestess

[Michultradk]

Ozruk sucks. I'm not the greatest tank in the world, but I can hold my own and he gives me fits. It's the timing between the frontal cone that I strafe out of (ground slam) and the damn Shatter, I just can't get the rhythm to it. For most, if not all bosses, you can get a feel for when you need to do things, hell, even LK after a while you just intuitively knew, "it's time for Defile" even before DBM screamed. Ozruk just throws me off.

I can still wipe here on any given day due to poor timing/planning of the mechanics here on my part. I even downloaded LittleWigs for this fight and do find it (LittleWigs) better as well, but it doesn't help change the outcome sometimes. Now that I think about it when we first started this I don't think DBM was up to date and that's what pushed me to LW in late Dec. early Jan I believe.

[Banterloft]

Remember those good ole days when were were QQing about how bad the pugs in trade were? Never... EVER take a trade healer into Mech and Bot? I still stand firm, if you are having problems as a dps queing for dungeons then turn to your guild We are 15 pages in here and I have yet to see a single tank here say they are turning down guildies.

I'm getting so tired of hearing DPS QQ about this. Yes, tanks get insta-cue. Yes its easier for tanks to build JP and VP. Take a good long look around your guild raid. See how many cloth, leather, and mail pieces drop? Its still harder to gear a tank, we still have much more to contend with than just sticking to our rotation and getting out of the fire, and we are STILL the ones who will save the raid. We are the first ones in, we are the last ones out. We have higher repair bills, we always show with flask and food.

As far as the LFG system I say this and this only. Do it right or I will kick you. I can find another DPS in 2 seconds... Life isn't fair and neither is warcraft.

Ok, that being said... If I haven't gotten the hammer yet...

Ozruk is all about timing. I drop rend and keep it rolling. Turn him not twards the wall but away from my group down the hall. Straif out of the stomp and when shatter comes I run back away from the party. If your fast you won't take dmg. Charge back in as soon as shatter ends and he doesn't move an inch. Most Ozruk wipes happen because tanks are running back to their parties and the shards hit the party members.

[Nereel]

So to summarize much of the discussion regarding the lack of tanks in LFD. The reason tanks do not solo queue in the dungeon finder are:

1. Don’t need the gear, justice points or valor points five man heroics offer,
2. Don’t want to be randomly grouped with players who have exceptionally low skill (the Bad’s),
3. Don’t want to be randomly grouped with players who have zero tolerance for errors (vote kicked),
4. Don’t want to be subject to poor behavior and immature name calling (the Rude’s).

[Doc309]

and add to that ...
5. why should i worry about gearing my tank if s/he can't get a raid spot.

[Selene]

I agree with Ozruk being a pain to tank..I know it took me SEVERAL different runs b4 i got the correct timing of moving out, or side-stepping Shatter...Even worse was for the longest time, i had shatter, and ground slam confused XD ...I was just attempting to run 15yrds away for both to compensate ( I spent most of the encounter running the 15yrd safe range to and from Ozruk)...I do charge back after ground slam on my warr, and dont have a problem..Ive only run into a problem with the paralyze when shaman healing..I just cants eem to flame shock correctly,lol...Healadin i just go with SoT and let'er rip(yes i lose 5% inc healing from dropping SoI, but, to avoid the poison, I deal with)

@ Bovinity...You can say "do your research" all you want, but the fact of the matter is, SOMEONE has to run it first and create such a thread, or video to give ppl..Not to mention, early on, many methods r flawed and taught for long times until you've figured out better ways for yourself...It may be strange to you, but some of us like to learn it on our own!! Wierd huh?! Knowing the run to the point of being able to run it, eyes closed, is when it gets boring, then you run into the problem this thread speaks of...

/sarcasm on
I think I know what it is now, Bovinity is just so leet that he can solo ANYTHING with a level 1 clothie, that the rest of just suck so much in comparision.
/sarcasm off

All the research will never fully compensate for actually doing something, and the Ozruk fight does have tight timing issues, especially pre-nerf where you had no indication if you were even out of the danger area.

Also offhand Ozruk is the only boss I can think of that has 2 move or die abilities that directly affect the tank.

[Bovinity]

/sarcasm on
I think I know what it is now, Bovinity is just so leet that he can solo ANYTHING with a level 1 clothie, that the rest of just suck so much in comparision.
/sarcasm off

Yeah, that's definately what I said. I'm sorry that it's so threatening when anyone doesn't fall into line when a thread just starts descending into blatant QQ.

It may be strange to you, but some of us like to learn it on our own!! Wierd huh?!

And that's your choice, you can choose to "learn as you go" so to speak. But I don't see how you can choose to not learn anything about a fight beforehand but also complain that the mechanics kill you the first few times when you don't know anything about them. That doesn't seem very reasonable.

[Katzazi]

6. Don't want to turn down guild mates even when we queue (we are probably turning them down often enough because we cannot go all the time).


And that's the worst part of the Call for Arms idea. That if you consider to queue as a tank you have to decide between helping your guild mates to get their run soon or to queue totaly solo to get something done for yourself. However you decide it adds up at least some bad feelings on one side (you or your guild mates).

Everytime I log on there is at least one person asking me if I would [like to] tank a 5man for/with them (or heal since I also play a healer). I don't have a problem to answer "no" or at least "no not right now", since most times I have to do some other stuff (like organizing something for the next raid). But it's really hard to imagine to tell them "no, but since you've asked - I'll queue without you". And after that to read their QQ about how long their queue is and how bad the tank is and that they wiped again and whatever. While finding myself grouped with a group not chatting at all in the good case.

And remember the longer the queues are for them, the more they would try to get me to go with them. So if you have Call for Arms for your role, chances are quite high, that guild mates are asking you to take them with you. If you would join with your guildmate who already is sitting in the queue, the queue would get shorter at least to some amount for everybody sitting in front of him and to the same amount for everybody behind as if you would queue solo. So I don't really get why they decided that a player has to queue solo to get the bag. It just adds at least some part of bad feelings on the shoulders of the player for doing 5mans. (Either because they had to turn down a guildmate or because they don't get a chance for the bag because they gave in to a guildmate.) That's a weird way to make something more attractive...

[Insahnity]

Honestly, I have seen nothing in this discussion or the CtA that will actually correct or police the LFD community.

Group wipe because DPS chain pulled first - (Me, Tank) Let me pull please - (Group) STFU you are too slow <votekick>

Tank who stands in fire - (Me, Healer) Don't stand in Fire - (Group) You Fail as a healer <votekick>

Group wipe - (Me as DPS) - (Wait for 3-5 consecutive 30-45 minute queues as tank or healer shows up and then leaves from non-fresh run, after first wipe)

It's not the tanks only. It's not the healers only. And many of the decent DPS are held hostage by idiots.

[Bovinity]

It's not the tanks only. It's not the healers only. And many of the decent DPS are held hostage by idiots.

Yah. With all the talk of "risk vs. reward" for tanks and how tough it is for them, I think people forget that tanks are sitting on instant queues while DPS get to wait in 40 minute queues and just hope and pray they don't get a completely awful group that they're kind of shackled with because leaving means another 40 minute wait. Or get kicked from the group into another 40 minute wait.

How people can really claim that tanks have it so hard in the current LFD system is really beyond me.

[Krenian]

Alright. I'm done with this thread. This is pretty much two sides that after 15 pages, it simply does not seem to go anywhere. Also, I'm starting to once more see people being snide to each other.

Thread closed.