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Thread: Pre-raid Prot Warrior stat question.

  1. #1
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    Pre-raid Prot Warrior stat question.

    Hi, I'm currently reaching a stage where 5-man heroics aren't as dificult (as long as i'm grouped with people almost as well geared as i am, can't quite carry a group yet). I generally take a more hit/exp aproach to my tanking to help keep aggro and so, my block+parry+dodge is a little under what it sould be for raiding.
    My question is to those who don't worry about their exp/hit as much. How low can you let your hit/exp drop befor you experience sgnificant problems keeping aggro? I believe if i reforge out some hit/exp (they're sitting at 6.11% hit and 24 exp) I can get my def stats up to a more suitable level, but i'm not sure how low to go, and i'd rather not waste time with trial and error.

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    6.11% hit and 24 exp should be just barely above the hit cap and expertise soft cap (for dodge) for heroic dungeons iirc.

    I finally leveled my warrior and have been reforging to mastery/parry, so I'm only at about 3.5% hit and 8 expertise. Yes, I do have some aggro issues (mainly against ret palies, oddly enough, I haven't really had problems against any other class so far), but smart use of cooldowns, abilities, shield block, taunt and BnT (for AoE bulls) have allowed me to manage just fine, but it's far from the mouth-breathingly easy that it was in WotLK.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  3. #3
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    Well, to begin with, when I tank heroics, I tank guild groups, so there's a certain level of comfort there. But I run .64% hit and 3 exp and it's not much of a problem. Even when my GL getting to DPS decides to ride my ass into the group.

    The biggest thing for packs is marking CC and telling the group to hold off until they see TC. That's usually a good point. If they wait that long, you shouldn't have too much trouble. Rend + B+T/TC plus HS replacing with cleave and Imp Rev seem to hold well enough. Shockwave a few seconds in too can help a lot, stunning the mobs giving you a little more time before they'd think to run around.

    Single targets, it's all about the intro. One suggestion I've seen that makes sense if you use thunderstruck, is it TC 3 times before the charge so you ahve the buff. Opening is HT->Charge/Sheild Block -> SS -> Con BLow. Then a more or less normal rotation, after a little bit, work shockwave in.

    Typically I have more problems on boss pulls as people like to go all out there and tend to be better about not AoE-ing as heaving on trash pulls.

    ***

    In reality, it's going to be a little bit of trial and error - as you're going to have to see what works for you. If you typically pug heroics, more hit/exp might be needed than a guild group you can talk with on Vent or in guild chat. You can go low without an issue, but it's a cooperative effort in that case.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

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    @Aggathon: Yeah, 6.11 and 24 allows for 0% miss/parry/dodge on lvl 87's, which, anything higher is wasted on a 5-man.

    @Loganisis: I tend to go solo into dungeon finder 98% of the time, so i unfortuantely lack comfortable communication with most party's. especially since there always seem to be one hot-headed idiot in every dungeon.

    Thank you though, this is helpful knowledge.
    Last edited by Gregasaurous; 04-02-2011 at 06:47 PM.

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    For those of you who may have the same question I'm posting my findings.

    I dropped my hit to 3.74% (giving a 2.26% miss chance on 87's) and my exp to 20 (1% dodge chance by 87's). I experienced a few minor issues at first but they were easily overcome by changing up my attack pattern/rotation. I did howerver have one unlucky mishap where a miss got timed perfectly with a DPS crit while on a boss. My threat dropped to 50% and i was barely able to get it back and maintian it while the DPS were still pounding full force being that it was the middle of the fight.

    So in the end it would appear that if you step out of your comfort zone a little and risk a few otherwise completely avoidable threat losses, you should be able to adjust with only minor dificulties by making sure you have communication with DPS and make full use of CD's even if they don't appear nescacary at the moment, reducing DPS threat can never be bad.

    Anybody with further pointers or questions on the subject, please go ahead and reply. (Pointers especially, still not quite raid ready. Need to grind through specifics to find upgrades for a few more pesky slots)

  6. #6
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    i have two sets. a threat set for tanking pugs and a tanking set.
    for threat set, i run about 3.5 percent hit and 17 expertise and it seems to work fine for me. for tanking raids, lol, both are practically non-existent (like 1 percent hit and 4-5 expertise).

  7. #7
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    Taunt can't miss so put Vigilance on your aggro-heaviest dps and just get the boss back when he turns around. You really shouldn't need any hit nor expertise after you got the snap aggro, vengeance is (almost) always enough while playing a proper "rotation" (hint: shieldslam, rev/dev until you can shieldslam again isn't enough) even against dps that outgears heroics heavily. And if you feel really uncomfortable with this have your tank gear with your tank stats and keep some threat pieces around (eg blacksmith chest, ramkahen bracer) - gemmed, reforged and enchanted for +threat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistraele View Post
    i have two sets. a threat set for tanking pugs and a tanking set.
    for threat set, i run about 3.5 percent hit and 17 expertise and it seems to work fine for me. for tanking raids, lol, both are practically non-existent (like 1 percent hit and 4-5 expertise).
    This is a good approach, and something you'll want to do to keep your sanity. Running around with no hit and expertise makes random BS happen with threat, but when you are in progression and can tell your dps to be careful / get plenty of misdirection to help pulls, it's something you can work around. If you haven't got a threat set to switch into, you'll end up pulling your hair out on trash clears, heroic runs and add heavy fights.

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    Thanks for the input guys, please keep it up by all means.

  10. #10
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    When you start doing heroic raids, you cannot sacrifice much avoidance for hit and expertise. In my guild, our warrior has slotted some expertise gems to help with his threat issues. Unfortunately, we do not use him as the single target tank on the boss, because paladins, DKs and Feral druids are better at it. Those classes have better damage mitigation and can hold threat in a raid full of DPS in 372 gear. Warriors are having some threat issues at the moment, so they are commonly used as the add tank, on fights such as Maloriak, Nefarian, Heroic Magmaw, etc.

  11. #11
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    Generally, having multiple sets is the hallmark of a good tank.

    You should really refresh yourself on combat ratings from the grand master himself, Whitetooth over at EJ.

    Essentially speaking, the difference is kind of small, especially if you have properly trained DPS. I periodically solo tank in LFD (as an act of humility and charity to the poor bastards in there), and yes you do get those idiots who want to pull for you, and that's where threat becomes important. You can still out-threat those idiots quite easily with a proper spec, proper glyphs and proper prioritization of moves.

    The only way to know definitively if you need threat stats are as follows:
    1) You KNOW you have a rock solid rotation, spec, and glyphs. Submit armory links and some logs, and we can tell you if you are correct.
    AND,

    2) You watch the threat meter and frequently the DPS is riding your ass, and periodically need help (Hand of salvation from a pally, FeignDeath/Fade/Feint/SoulShatter/<insert self aggro drop>, or you need MD/TotT).

    OR

    3) Your stat/rotation/glyphs are solid, and your DPS admits to holding back.

    If you fit into that category, then I suggest gemming or enchanting for expertise first (up to 26), then hit. I wouldn't reforge for hit. Also, keep a str DPS weapon, things with hit/expertise + mastery are a good alternative to a dodge/parry + other stat(s).

  12. #12
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    I'm at 0.49%hit and 1 expertise. One of the key things that mastery stacking does is give you more rage, more rage should (and this is up to you) mean more Heroic Strikes. On most fights 20% of my damage is coming from Heroic strike, with some of the harder hitting fights (V&T, Ground phases of Nef) it reaching up to 35% of my damage done. Making good use of Inner rage, Zerker rage and your rage dumps is one of the warrior meta skills, watch out for those Bosses who have wierd hit boxes so hunters can still DPS while in melee range. On those fights you can charge while in melee, get used to doing that, it's an off the GCD rage maker with a 15sec cd. Free resource is free resource. Turn it into threat.

  13. #13
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    Warriors are having some threat issues at the moment, so they are commonly used as the add tank, on fights such as Maloriak, Nefarian, Heroic Magmaw, etc.
    Note: by "commonly" he means specifically in his guild. Doesn't really have anything to do with the actual state of Warriors outside of the ones he personally raids with. World of Logs shows heaps of record-setting fights using Warrior main tanks on these fights.

    I hate to chase you around the forums man but your "advice" on Warrior tanks is out of hand and not in touch with reality.
    Last edited by Kerchunk; 04-07-2011 at 02:40 PM.

  14. #14
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    Yeah, i've been seeing a lot in these forums about warrior threat issues in raids and for the most part when it's brought up other people have something to say about it either for or against warriors, which would lead me to believe that each case is situational and while it may be more dificult for a warrior than other classes, ultimately it depends on how well the individual plays his class and knows the tools of his trade

  15. #15
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    Warriors are notorious for being a class that requires skill to play, slightly more so than other tanks, although they have worked very hard to reduce that difference by making other tank classes "less automatic", and I would say it's extremely close now. This means it still takes skill to play a warrior, but it takes more active work to be, say, a good pally or bear (unlike in wotlk). Still, it's dead easy as compared to vanilla wow days, these kids have it easy.

    Give a kid today a swiss watch from a hundred years ago, and ask him to tinker with it, and soon he will say it sucks. Because it takes effort and skill to appreciate good craftsmanship of a mechanical wonder.

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