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Thread: Heroic Nefarian

  1. #41
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    I Just tested it yesterday on normal mode. I hope the fire doesnt behave different on heroic mode.
    If so, it was possible for me to Kite the fires, while Nef was in a Corner. I guess i had 8 resets (burned through the first two phases and let me kite till enrage) and had about 40 meter extra kite path to use, till i would ve run into fire.

    Are there any other disadvantages when using the corner position?

    Another question regarding the electrocute. Do you also have to use raid CD's in 10m? We should push every 45s a electrocute. We have nature resistance totem, but only 3 Raid cd's (on a 3 Min CD).
    And will shieldblock be enough as kiter?

  2. #42
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrea View Post
    Electrocute does 130000 damage before reductions.
    With nr totem you are guaranteed to resist 10k at least every time

    How many PSes do you have we use 3 and with shield wall the tank still always has a cd for every one and we probably push a lot faster than you will. Don't forget tinge like holy pall hand of sac +bubble or the the trinket



  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by arctus View Post
    Are there any other disadvantages when using the corner position?
    If i screw up and don't reset the adds on 13/14 stacks a healer from the middle can easily assist on healing me until they finally fall together.

    Quote Originally Posted by arctus View Post
    Another question regarding the electrocute. Do you also have to use raid CD's in 10m? We should push every 45s a electrocute. We have nature resistance totem, but only 3 Raid cd's (on a 3 Min CD).
    Warriors self-cooldowns:
    • Shield Wall (40% every second minute)
    • Tol Barad Trinket (40% resist on electrocute every minute)
    • Shield Block (20% magical damage reduction and "block capped", should be up for every Electrocute*)
    • Shockwave (taking out incoming damage every 3rd shadow blaze, you can use it upfront an electrocute to help topping yourself. You can combine this with a heroic leap if things get really messy.
    • Raidshout + enraged Regeneration (every third minute)
    Call out for support (Raidwall, Painsup, Guardian Angel, Bubble+Sacrifice or just a dps stop) if you run out of cooldowns. When i reset the adds properly i get one-two electrocutes during a phase of no adds up, thus i can save my cooldown for the next one.

    I regulary use

    1st Mirror
    2nd Adds aren't up
    3rd Mirror
    4th Shield Wall
    5th Mirror
    6th Raid Shout
    7th Mirror
    8th Shield Wall
    9th Mirror

    On a sidenote: i'm almost never in range of either natur resistance totem or hunter aura, if you struggle heavily with the elcetrocute spikes you might want to check for this first.

    Imho most important about Nefarian heroic isn't the proper cooldown management (it's honestly rather simple, use a mirror if you don't happen to be a DK and you're set) but the proper reset of the adds. There's very little leeway and a lot of pressure at 20+ stacks. It should really looks like this (our most recent kill):



    * unless your fury warrior is maxed on stacks and start critting with executes for 500k

  5. #45
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    Thanks for the Infos. I mean are there any other disadvantages?
    Of course they could help me out, if i fail. But usually i have a very little fail chance, so i try to help my raid.
    Compared to the middle tactic, where the mt / whole raid can fail with positioning.

    Like i said, i practiced yesterday on NM a bit. 3 Trys with about 30 min kiting... never failed a reset, beside 1 single add...
    Of course on HM, there will be the cooldown rotation, that puts more pressure on me. But i hope that i can do it.
    So the only person who can fail in P3 is me.
    Do i really need Shield Wall with proper add resetting? And does the raid needs raidwide cd's (like barrier), to avoid getting 1shotted?

  6. #46
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    Just try hardmode, if you feel fine with having Nef in a corner i can't see a problem with that. You want a damage reduction cooldown for every electrocute, having the new shield block is a huge step forward for all warriors but i tend to use it on cooldown rather then delaying it over and over again for every crackle, thus granting me a noticeable decrease in melee damage taken (which is still 75% of my overall damage taken during that phase with both thunderclap and demoshout up and stunning constantly) and needs to be healed up from a single healer while moving, juggling their own self cooldowns and breaking mind control every so often.

    Quote Originally Posted by arctus View Post
    And does the raid needs raidwide cd's (like barrier), to avoid getting 1shotted?
    Every class/specc got some cooldowns on their own and everyone should try to using them. Problem: a lot is on an one minute cooldown so they can only use it every second electrocute. Try staying in mind control until the crackle is over before release. Don't stand in the tail-lash or the fire and assist on healing yourself before an electrocute if necessary. Your healers got 40+ seconds to top your dps after a crackle so laying down a healing rain or using other mana efficient spells over flash heals is advisable.

    Unless your dps heavily undergear that place or your healer can't top you off for whatever reason your dps will never be in the risk of dying, period.

  7. #47
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    Having some problems in phase 3, where the fire creeps from the outside of the ring into the middle where the raid is. DPS are complaining that they can't get good stacks of stolen power because they risk dropping out of the mind control in the middle of flames. Is there a particular trick to the starting position in p3 to avoid this happening? We have nef in the middle facing almost directly south, the raid assembled to his right, the add pile at the far north.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    Having some problems in phase 3, where the fire creeps from the outside of the ring into the middle where the raid is. DPS are complaining that they can't get good stacks of stolen power because they risk dropping out of the mind control in the middle of flames. Is there a particular trick to the starting position in p3 to avoid this happening? We have nef in the middle facing almost directly south, the raid assembled to his right, the add pile at the far north.
    I would think your biggest problem with this setup is your tank constantly getting tail whipped?

    Also depends on how you are rotating nef and which side the adds are on. Basically you want to draw an 80-100 degree angle from where your tank is standing, with nef and the hinge, to where the adds are being tanked. And your raid should stand on the line from nef to the add tank.

    As for starting, you want the add tank to be as close to the front of nef as possible without getting breathed when the adds first spawn in phase 3, gives you a few extra seconds of kiting time on the first set before the raid has to move which is very important for topping people up after the transition.



  9. #49
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    Er, this probably calls for pictures... But in the absence of those, lets use a clock face.

    Add tank isn't getting tail whipped, tail starts out pointing towards 11 o'clock, with the adds getting picked up at 12 and moved around clockwise. Raid starts at around 8-9 o'clock, with the nef tank starting at 5 o'clock. The whole group slowly rotates, like at Halion. So if I read what you are saying correctly, we should consider putting the raid on the same side as the add tank (i.e. starting at around 3 o'clock)?

  10. #50
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    After a night wiping and a few tries in P3. I actually cant complain about the corner position. I had no problems resetting the adds or running out of space. However we had several other problems (our best try was 8%):

    1. Kiter Tank healer dies. In several tries he got oneshotted by a crackle. He had 128k hp and had no CD for the crackle and took a full hit. What healer would you advise as kite healer? Disci, Paly or Druid? A Pre Shielding should survive, without a CD and could also offer a PS for the tank. However i would also love him in the group for his barrier. Whats your opinion?

    2. Bad placement of the add corpse in P1. We had several trys, where the Nef breath and the shadowflame wasnt enough to resurrect all Adds. I first tried to sync them, but because of the extra time, i died. So i kited them with 2 different energy levels. Which was possible, but on the long run, i always failed. The biggest problem, that i lost 1 corpse, while i had to go on because of the other living adds. Because of bad luck, the next 3 Shadowflames didnt hit the corpse. So it got resurrected when i was out of range. I also tried to sync them mid fight, but the dmg always killed me. How do you handle those situations?

    Thanks.

    Arctus

  11. #51
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    man, guild got him to 18% last night. extending raid for today. hope they get it!

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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    we should consider putting the raid on the same side as the add tank (i.e. starting at around 3 o'clock)?
    Yes, absolutely. This way you have backup heals for maintank/offtank if something goes messy and your auras/totems should be in range for almost everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by arctus View Post
    1. Kiter Tank healer dies. In several tries he got oneshotted by a crackle. He had 128k hp and had no CD for the crackle and took a full hit. What healer would you advise as kite healer? Disci, Paly or Druid?
    a) You got at least 90ish resistamce from motw/kings and he can also use a resistance elixir or a stamina flask if it doesn't work another way
    b) Holy pally got a -40% magical damage cooldown on a 40s cooldown + bubble + stun for the adds.. should be a nobrainer

    For your other problem: that's a kiter issue, have them work on that. I just tank them all + Onyxia in phase one so they end up being clumped up perfectly. Syncing isn't possible due to fast growing stacks, having a hunter or rogue assist with MD/tricks on roamers.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    man, guild got him to 18% last night. extending raid for today. hope they get it!
    GL!

    Thanks at least in part to the feedback here, we got to 11% but hit the berserk timer, so now we are looking at DPS optimisation and also a bit of extra survival.

    On our best attempt, we had one of our shaman (I think in a burst of over-enthusiasm) nuke 3 other players with a badly timed chain lightning and thunderstorm combo... This seems to present a difficult choice. On the one hand, we want people to max their dps, but on the other hand lots of classes have AOE elements in their max dps rotations. Any tips on this front?

    Also, when are people burning heroism/bloodlust? After getting frustrated with phase 2 we started using it then, but I'm aware that it would be more beneficial to total RDPS if it were timed when we had the benefit of stolen power.

  14. #54
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    I'd just tell people who need to AoE for their rotation to hold off their chain lightnings etc until the mind controls have faded, 3 dead people means way more of an rDPS loss than holding off a spell for 5 seconds.

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