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Thread: Heroic Nefarian

  1. #1
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    Heroic Nefarian



    Quote Originally Posted by Aliena
    Hello and welcome to the Blackwing Descent Raid Guide! My name is Aliena, and in this video I'll show you all you have to know about heroic Nefarian, the final encounter in this raid instance. I'll assume that you're familiar with the normal version of this encounter and will only go over what changes for the heroic version. We defeat this encounter with 3 tanks, 6 healers and 16 DPS, but similar raid configurations may work just as well.

    As usual, the encounter has three phases. In the first phase, you'll encounter Onyxia who has received a health upgrade and now sports 35 million. Nefarian himself got bumped to about 180 million and the Bone Warrior health is still irrelevant as you still kite them and don't kill them.

    Your goal in phase 1 is to deal as much damage to Nefarian as you can while still minding Onyxia's Lightning Machine Timer - should it reach max, Onyxia still explodes and your raid wipes. Personally, we aim for two Electrocutes in phase 1 - so Nef is at about 75% health when phase 2 starts.

    A new mechanic is introduced in phase 1 - Dominion, which mind controls about 5 random people in your raid (but does not target tanks). As soon as your raid members become mind controlled, they will start walking towards a portal that spawns. Should they reach the portal, they die. However, Dominion is a key ability to this fight. As soon as you get mind controlled, your action bar will change and you will only have two abilities. The ability on the "1" key will break the mind control immediately whereas the ability on the "2" key will give you a stacking damage buff.

    Any healer that gets mind controlled should break their Dominion immediately, whereas every DPS that gets mind controlled should spam the "2"-key until they're close to their portal and then break the MC. Make sure to never touch the portal, though - it's just a plain instant death. After the mind control breaks, the players in question will get a speed buff, so make sure not to accidentally run in front of any dragon face.

    Our strategy for phase 1 is to divide up our healers - 3 stay with the Onyxia tank (we usually use a druid, disc priest and holy paladin with the Onyxia tank), we send one disc priest with the add tank & the remaining two healers (typically a shaman and holy paladin) move to Nefarian's flank to heal his tank. Nef and Onyxia still need to remain 60 yards apart and the adds should still all die in the same spot (we usually hold ours close to Nef's tail). The add tank should cycle his cooldowns if necessary while tanking the adds in phase 1.

    our DPS will focus Onyxia down to about 3% health and then move over to Nefarian. As mentioned, we aim for two Electrocutes in phase 1. It is extremely important to use a raid cooldown for Electrocutes as often as possible. Tanks should also use personal cooldowns such as Shield Wall for every Electrocute that they can. If all their cooldowns are on cooldown, they should ask for a Pain Suppression, Guardian Spirit or bubblesac.

    In phase 1, the disc priest remaining with the Onyxia tank should make sure to put a power word: shield on everyone in his little group before an Electrocute to avoid unfortunate deaths.

    To recap phase 1: Aim for two Electrocutes, and use raid cooldowns for them. Kill Onyxia before her Lightning Machine explodes. Have DPS stack up Dominion while healers should break it immediately. Divide your tanks and healers smartly.

    As soon as phase 2 hits, you will want your team divided for all three pillars as per usual. Make sure each platform has plenty of interrupters and that they have a good system worked out. Phase 2 - of course - comes with a twist. Nefarian will occasionally cast a debuff on 3 random raid members called Explosive Cinders. This debuff lasts 8 seconds, and once it expires, the person in question will explode everyone in roughly an 8-yard range. If this hits any group members, they will get blasted off the platform and it'll likely result in a wipe.

    To counter Explosive Cinders, everyone should be stacked in the middle of a platform. If someone on your platform or even multiple people on your platform receive the debuff, they should then move to the outside of the pillar and wait until they have 3 seconds left on Cinders. As soon as they hit 3 seconds, they should jump into the lava and swim a ways away until Cinders wears off. Then, immediately strafe back and jump back onto the platform.

    Healers will need to keep an eye out on people with Cinders as they will take additional Magma damage. Interrupters will have to cover for anyone that has to deal with Cinders, so make sure to communicate. Even just one Blast Nova tick going off can easily result in a raid wipe. We do not trigger any Electrocutes in phase 2, as there's too much raid damage going out to cover the Electrocute damage at the same time. Instead, we focus down the Prototypes & make sure they die at roughly the same time.

    When phase 3 triggers, we have our add tank move over to where the skeletons died. The Oynxia tank from phase 1 joins him there, just in case any adds get loose or to emergency taunt should the primary add tank die. At the start, 2 healers join them there, but we typically end up moving another 1-2 healers over to the add tank once damage starts spiking.

    Our Nefarian tank pulls the dragon to the middle of the room and most of the raid will stack up on his side while the add tank kites the skeletons around the outside of the room. The Nefarian tank will rotate his dragon at the speed of the add tank so Nef never faces the add tank nor the adds and no Breath ever hits them. The rest of the raid rotates with Nef but makes sure to stay at his flank to avoid both breath and tail lash.

    The add tank as per usual will want to avoid the adds getting hit by Shadowflame so they die in a timely manner and their damage buff doesn't stack up too high. Again, we aim to have a raid cooldown for every Electrocute. If you bring 2 disc priests and 1 Prot Pally, it should cover all 9 Electrocutes unless you feel you want to double up cooldowns on a certain Electrocute.

    Tanks surviving Electrocutes is the absolute priority in this phase. Raid damage can be patched later, so your healers should concentrate on keeping tanks up through every Crackle. Again, if as a tank you do not have a personal cooldown available for an Electrocute, request one from another raid member. Tank deaths are about the only thing that can wipe you in phase 3. Dominion still happens in phase 3 so deal with it as you did in phase 1. Those are about all the tips I have for the heroic Nefarian encounter. I've attached full footage of one of our kills so you can see how we dealt with the various mechanics in detail!

  2. #2
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    Will this phase 3 strategy work on the 25 norm encounter? As it seems to be a much better way of controlling the adds.

  3. #3
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    Right now, that entire room is bugged. Nothing mob wise paths the way its supposed to making this encounter much more difficult. In theory, you will never get hit now, even by onyxia and nef, but in reality it does not work that way and just makes the encounter harder to manage.

    Basically the bug is if you never stop moving, nothing in the encounter will melee you. The problem comes when the fire is spawned, the adds are so slow, buggy, and far away with you that it is almost impossible to prevent them from hitting the fire.

    To compensate for this, we now tank phase 3 up against the side and let our warrior use the entire room, instead of just being limited to running in a circle. Until this bug came in however, we also did phase 3 in the manner described. The other advantage is that all your healers are now in range of the add tank and the main tank at the same time

    2 additional notes, we bring 3 disc priests and cannot cover every crackle. We also use 7 healers and the enrage timer if a DPS dies becomes a very serious concern.



  4. #4
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    The moving thing only was the case if you actually backpaddled instead of straving / running. This, however, seems to have been hotfixed from wednesday to thursday (on Dragonmaw-EU at least) as I was able to "backpaddle-bug" the bone warriors on Wednesday but wasn't able to anymore on thursday.

    Either way, good guide. We just started working on this on wednesday and are handling almost everything the same - except for the fact that if we want to trigger 2 crackles in P1 we HAVE TO kill Onyxia before the crackle cast finishes or her lightning machine will go off and wipe us. I suppose that's just our dps being lower than yours? Oh well, we've only spent like 6 hours on it and are reaching p3 every now and then.

    Phase 2 is, in theory, very easy. But getting the hang of the transition into p2 right is really hard for some of the raiders... *cough*

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xcuse View Post
    The moving thing only was the case if you actually backpaddled instead of straving / running. This, however, seems to have been hotfixed from wednesday to thursday (on Dragonmaw-EU at least) as I was able to "backpaddle-bug" the bone warriors on Wednesday but wasn't able to anymore on thursday.

    Either way, good guide. We just started working on this on wednesday and are handling almost everything the same - except for the fact that if we want to trigger 2 crackles in P1 we HAVE TO kill Onyxia before the crackle cast finishes or her lightning machine will go off and wipe us. I suppose that's just our dps being lower than yours? Oh well, we've only spent like 6 hours on it and are reaching p3 every now and then.

    Phase 2 is, in theory, very easy. But getting the hang of the transition into p2 right is really hard for some of the raiders... *cough*
    Good to know, we killed nef on Tuesday this week.

    Also, I did not even look at phase 1 of the write-up, only 2 and 3. It is entirely possible to do phase 3 from 85-0, in fact most guilds that I have seen do it that way, it all depends on how much faith you have in your kiter.



  6. #6
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    .

    Great guide, one question on the difficulty. I'm in a 10man Heroic guild and we've done halfus, maloriak, chimaeron, atramedes, and just recently magmaw and conclave. Is nef a good next target? Or should we be spending time on something like omnotron next.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksend View Post
    Good to know, we killed nef on Tuesday this week.

    Also, I did not even look at phase 1 of the write-up, only 2 and 3. It is entirely possible to do phase 3 from 85-0, in fact most guilds that I have seen do it that way, it all depends on how much faith you have in your kiter.
    Well, I'm the add-tank so... I suppose they're having quite some faith in me... let's hope I don't disappoint!


    Quote Originally Posted by Mukluk View Post
    Great guide, one question on the difficulty. I'm in a 10man Heroic guild and we've done halfus, maloriak, chimaeron, atramedes, and just recently magmaw and conclave. Is nef a good next target? Or should we be spending time on something like omnotron next.
    On 10m Nef normal already is really hard, with heroic being another step up. I'd definately suggest doing Omnotron, Al'akir and possibly V&T (if you have a good rogue that can play Sub) after the recent nerfs first .
    Just my suggestions tho - I've barely done hardmodes in 10m.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xcuse View Post
    and possibly V&T (if you have a good rogue that can play Sub) after the recent nerfs first
    I'd really recommend waiting for 4.1 before bothering with V&T, making that fight such much easier on 10s. Same is true for Nefarian, without the awesome nerf to interrupt you'll have to bring 6 hitcapped interrupts (vs lvl 85) instead of letting your shaman/paladin healers then doing the backup job. Omnotron and Al'Akir are both solid goals for the next week(s).

  9. #9
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    We are a grp of friends on a 9/13 10m HC guild (semi-hardcore)...and just started last night a few attempts on nef heroic. I gotta say p1 is not really a problem at all...but p2 can be a pain in the ass with all that dmg especially nef's shadow bolts..which are freaking ridiculous...hitting for 52k every 4 secs or so.

    Right now our healing comp is...Resto druid, Resto shaman and disc priest. Not gonna lie to you but the resto druid has some serious problems to burst heal those 52k sometimes...any particular advice on p2 10m HC? Should we just use Tranquility or anything like that?.

    Thx in advance.

  10. #10
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    Unless you want to replace the druid you may have to wait for 4.1 and the changes to Nef heroic.

    • Nefarian's End
      • The damage of Shadowflame Barrage has been reduced by 15% (10-player normal and Heroic difficulty only).
      • The damage of Tail Lash has been reduced by 20% (10-player normal and Heroic difficulty only).

    Well, what you actually can do is using 4-4-2 people on the pillars if both other healer can manage it with their mana.

  11. #11
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    After a few more attempts...we can reach p3 easily (druid had a bad night the other day), anyways...on P3 our Kite Tank..which is a DK...seems to die every single time at around 70%...after the adds reseted...even with Icebound fortitude up the adds pretty much destroy him for some unknown reason. I came up with the idea than the offtank has to kite along the outter circle and always staying at the same side of the raid so..both tanks can be healed for every healer. Is that ok? anything else you guys think we should change?.

    Thx in advance.

  12. #12
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    He is dying after all adds reset once? Does he reset them again (and again.. and again)? I guess he's using AMS for every crackle and his other cooldowns to smooth out damage at lower energy rates?

    Having Nef in the middle and running with the adds around him is the easiest way, your camp just moves with the body (similar to Halion) - but your camp/mt healer might have to switch side from time to time, depending on fire pathing, so you shouldn't rely on them for healing the offtank.

  13. #13
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    My 10man group has decided to start Heroic Nefarian and join the race for server first even tho technically we're slightly under geared because not everyone is in full heroic gear . We did about and hour and half worth of attempts monday night before reset to start to get a feel for it, and we did make it to phase transition once.

    DPS: priest, hunter, Rogue, warlock

    Our healers include myself, the resto druid, holly pally, and a resto shaman. I'm healing the tank that is on Ony (he's a DK) the resto shaman is on the add tank (he's a warrior) and the holy pally is on tank on Nef (he's a Pally). The Tanks are getting hit really hard. We've decided that since they're getting hit really hard, that our tank is really our sole responsibility, and we're not healing anyone's tank at the same time (maybe a bad idea?) We normally wipe just around or after the second Electrocute, from what i'm assuming is that now we're placing raid heals, keeping larger heals from the tank, and the tank dies. I know from the time we got to phase 2, I was practically spamming Healing Touch on my tank, and before the Electrocute hit I rejuv/WG myself and then swiftmend myself for Efflo, and just hoping WG/Efflo will hit the people near by me. The problem with Healing Touch spamming is now I'm low on mana. Why don't I innervate myself? you might ask, because now that we are about to transition, the holy pally is oom, calling for it, and the shaman is low on mana as well because we all spammed our largest heals to make it this far.

    Also, i'm worried about Phase 2, since personally, I feel like phase 2 is the hardest for me, I always need to pop tree form, and Lifebloomx3 everyone on my platform just to keep everyone up, and now we're doing heroic mode

    If anyone has any actual suggestions or tips or tricks or anything, that would be really awesome.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saphiria View Post
    We normally wipe just around or after the second Electrocute,
    Why don't you just kill Onyxia and push all eletrocutes during phase 3? This way you don't have to deal with 2 drakes, 5 adds, taillash and lightning discharge all at once.

    And 3 tanks, really? There's still an enrage timer you want to beat. There are several other ways to deal with the adds like kiting (you have a DK, let him specc frost), tanking (Onyxia tank can take all adds as well or have a dps with some selfcooldowns + help from other tank them) or CC.

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    How many Explosive Cinders go out at a time in 10? I'm assuming one, yes? Anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with that if your interrupter gets it? We can probably manage a back up one one or may be two of the platforms, but all three may be rough.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moophisto View Post
    How many Explosive Cinders go out at a time in 10? I'm assuming one, yes? Anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with that if your interrupter gets it? We can probably manage a back up one one or may be two of the platforms, but all three may be rough.
    We got server first on this on 10man last week. One cinder happens per cast in 10man phase 2 and we had 1 healer 2dps on one platform, 1 healer 2dps on another, and 1 healer 1 dps and the 2 tanks on the third. Every platform had a main interupter and a backup. The plat with the two tanks had one of our bad interupting dps (shadow priest) and if you had to jump just said something like "got cinder, joe your next interupt" etc.

  17. #17
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    Hellloooo

    My guild is running 7 healers with 2 healers on the Nef tank and 5 on the Add tank for p3 and we are still having a really hard time keeping the add tank alive once the adds are about 12% energy but not so much trouble keeping him up throughout crackles. We've found the adds do much more then the crackles to us as healers and I was just curious if there was anything you could help me out with here. We normally run 2 priests 2 paladins 2 druids 1 shaman-- We've also ran this 2 Priests 3 pallys 1 druid 1 shaman, all in all we use our Sacs and pain sups when we can in a cool down rotation but I really don't think paladins using Sac is enough to mitigate much of the damage, do you recommend going with 2 pain sups and tank cool downs in a rotation with healers just burst healing the last bit b4 the resets???

  18. #18
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    guys,

    whats better to use for prot warrior when tanking adds?

    armor+mastery elixir or magic resistance/mastery elixir ?

    or just go with stamina flask ?

  19. #19
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    You'll want resistance/mastery to reduce the breath and electrocute spikes. Their physical damage output alone isn't that intimidating.

  20. #20
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    what breaths ?

    I am on add tanking duty

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