My thoughts on how I reforge to get max avoidance - opinions?

[trueX]

This was actually a response to an older thread but I put some real thought into it and took some time doing some math and spend a decent amount reforging back and forth and thought I would post this and see what feedback I got and how good im doing or how ignorant others may think I am.

Any feedback is welcome on why I do what I do, dont be afraid to criticize me, im here to continually learn so if you have an idea or notice im doing something totally wrong, please speak up.

Here is my profile - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...w/phyta/simple as of 3/12/11



I just use the avoidance macro for warriors to see what renders the highest overall # towards the 72.4% (which I am now over). As a warrior I generally drop any hit or exp for mastery, and also any parry or dodge (whichever is the higher reforgeable value) towards mastery even after the 72.4%.

Regarding which is better to reforge to mastery, be dodge or parry, its almost a wash and personal preference. I will give the following example.

Here is the macro I use /run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Total avoidance and block: %.2f%%", GetBlockChance()+GetParryChance()+GetDodgeChance() +5));

Upon getting a new tanking item, I will go to the reforger and hit my avoidance macro as is and reforge from there rechecking it each time forge checking to see if dodge or parry gives me more avoidance, if its even, I stick with the parry for keeping up Hold the Line. Currently with my gear and 2 avoidance trinkets my avoidance shows 79.71%, stats are 155859 hp, 11.89% dodge, 14.22% parry & 18.76% mastery. With 2 stamina trinkets I sit at 77.67% avoidance, stats are 170531 hp, 11.89% dodge, 13.47% parry, & 17.91% mastery. Not huge differences, only drop 0.75% parry and 0.85% mastery at a gain of 14,672 hp. Not a bad trade off if you feel you need a bit of extra stamina ( this is not counting the procs from my trinkets when procced give a decent amount of boosted avoidance). When in avoidance trinkets [H]Throngu's Finger procs the 1710 dodge (6.91%) and my Impetuous Query on use gives me 1260 parry (8.49%) but again, those are situational and may be on cooldown when you need them so its just the do I want 6-8% more avoidance every minute or 14.6k hp 100% of the time. Comes down to fight and personal preference. I generally raid in all my stam gear and use the clickables for chain pulls where I dont need much stam and older content.


You can use this macro and forge and unforge each item gaining .01 or .02% here and there for max possible avoidance combo. Thats what I did. I even just did this with my necklace dropping -44 dodge and gaining +44 parry and I went from 76.55 to 76.56%. Minimal gains I know but when hit and exp are not really a factor, and dodge and parry both not hitting DR yet all of it matters, dont worry so much about what the top tanks do or who does what and just do what gives you the most avoidance.

Some items dont even benefit from reforging, aka my ranged gun http://www.wowhead.com/item=56376 it only lets you drop Parry or Mastery, obviously you dont want to drop mastery so parry would be the choice you would think, but dropping the 22 parry and adding 22 dodge doesnt even change my avoidance by anything whatsoever, so again I just didnt reforge it and keep the higher overall parry rating to further keep Hold the Line up. Some items you can benefit in the long run even IF the avoidance does not change, with my ring http://www.wowhead.com/item=62351 dropping the -44 dodge to gain +44 parry does not change the overall avoidance at all, none whatsoever, but it does give me even MORE parry which once again keeps Hold the Line up even more often. Same situation with http://www.wowhead.com/item=58187 Ring #2, dropping the dodge to gain the parry does not change overall avoidance at all but gives more more overall parry which I feel is better for HTL. Same for my gloves http://www.wowhead.com/item=58105 , dropping the dodge for parry renders no more avoidance but ups overall Parry for HTL.

I seem to have no problem holding aggro or threat via vengeance, unbuffed with my current attack power and full vengeance stacked I have a max atk power of 20483 (which goes up when buffed and say I run battle shout vs comm shout if a priest is in the grp running fort and no pally running might) and I sit at 3.06% hit and 4 expertise....yes only 4, 20 short of the softcap but with Vengeance all stacked up and our skills are based off attack power, threat so far has been a non issue. I pull with a macro that does /cast Shoot then /cast Heroic Throw, Charge in, Shield Block and Shield Slam, then stack up 3 devastates and keep Revenge, Shield Slam, Shockwave and Concussive Blow on cooldown. If its just trash and a big AoE group I will actually hold off on the shockwave till I Thunderclap 3x to get the Thunderstruck buff up x3 which renders huge gains in shockwave damage.

I could be totally off but im doing well with it, rarely die and oddly enough tend to top dmg meters quite often. My healers dont seem to have any problems keeping me up.

[klausi]

a) I don't get your point, you haven't stepped into raiding yet (at least with your warrior) and overgear heroics. Aggro in heroics shouldn't be your first concern, all trash is stunnable and you can always use Recklessness or Retalation on a Dungeon Bosspull to smooth things out. And even if the boss turns around and hit those overeager melee once a taunt will regulary fix it.
b) Changing only one item to dodge over parry or vice versa might not change a thing, but swapping from 20% parry + 10% dodge to 15% parry + 15% dodge should net you 0.5% or even avoidance due to dimnishing returns.
c) You can't compare trinkets like this. Throngus yields x fix avoidance and also adds a huge amount of avoidance on a rather short cooldown that you should really take into consideration and redo the math.
d) Against your statement you recently reforged for expertise, why is that? And topping the meters.. with the survival hunters ceasing and Howling Blast nerfed to the ground there are not many aoe dps left that can keep up with Blood & Thunder/cleavespam.

[trueX]

I have no idea if you really read my post.

b) what does that even mean, neither are in DR yet so still parry > dodge would benefit me more via HTL.
c) I didnt even take the trinkets into account, yes I listed what they give on proc or use but that does not get factored into the macro at all.
d) against my statement of what, I havent reforged anything into expertise....why would you think that?

click my profile again, I have 4 expertise, how is that reforging INTO expertise?

I think either your are really confused or I misread your post....3x in trying to understand it.

But ty nonetheless

[klausi]

to b) With 14% parry you're already deep into DR. And yes, parry benefits you more. But adding another percent parry won't increase your HtL uptime dramatically (math here)
to c) That's why i mentioned it, you can see those x hitpoints increase from swapping in your stamina trinkets but you can't see the excact benefits of using two avoidance trinkets beyond their fix ratings.
to d) Last time i checked your profile you were sitting at 14 expertise, some parts reforged to expertise. Right now you're your dps gear so i might be mistaken there

[Naka]

You can also use a tool like Rawr to get the calculations for maximizing avoidance done. Might save you some gold.

[trueX]

Thx so far for all that, yes for a moment I did reforge for some expertise but was just messing around, I guess the armory didnt update but im now at 4 exp.

Also where are you getting that my parry is deep into DR ? I thought it was just starting at 14%, which im just under in stam gear, where is the cutoff, if that are true, I will start reforging the items that dont change avoidance at all with items that kept my parry to dodge and keep the same avoidance, lower my parry and up my dodge.

[Katzazi]

The DR starts right with the first parry and dodge you take. But it get's worse with every point.

[trueX]

The DR starts right with the first parry and dodge you take. But it get's worse with every point.

I dont think that is correct. Not that I have other proof but just trying to remember from reading, its after 14% or so give or take? Why would you say it starts at the first point (which it may very well) but id like to see a post or proof for this?

[Dogmeat]

I dont think that is correct. Not that I have other proof but just trying to remember from reading, its after 14% or so give or take? Why would you say it starts at the first point (which it may very well) but id like to see a post or proof for this?

Here you go... http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...urns-Avoidance (yes its for lvl 80, but should still hold true)... See here for current ratings...

[MellvarTank]

Diminishing returns apply to all of your parry and dodge except the base amounts. This hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is that parry and dodge share the same rate of DRs.

Why are you trying to max avoidance? You should be going for maximum mastery as a prot warrior and trying to get to at least 75% dodge/parry/block/miss. Block smooths out damage and makes you easier to heal, avoidance makes for spikey damage which makes you harder to heal. Predictable damage is key to surviving in current content.

[trueX]

Why are you trying to max avoidance? You should be going for maximum mastery as a prot warrior and trying to get to at least 75% dodge/parry/block/miss. Block smooths out damage and makes you easier to heal, avoidance makes for spikey damage which makes you harder to heal. Predictable damage is key to surviving in current content.

I have gone to max mastery, every stat I can reforge into mastery I have, the only time I reforge into dodge or parry is when mastery is not available and then is when I consult the macro to see which renders move avoidance, seems logical. And im already over 75% combined in both sets ( stam trinkets and avoidance trinkets ).

Avoidance trinkets = 79.71% while at max mastery.

Stamina trinkets = 77.67% while at max mastery.

The only way I could get more mastery is by using the 40 mastery gems in yellows vs 20 mastery 30 stam. But personally I dont think its worth it to go that overboard when my stats are already up to par.

[trueX]

Seem's avoidance would be the next logical thing to max after mastery no? Thats why

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...w/phyta/simple

Helm - dropped 54 exp, added 54 mastery.
Neck - dropped 44 dodge, added 44 parry (was more overall avoidance, mastery not reforgeable)
Shoulders - dropped 44 hit, added 44 mastery.
Cloak - dropped 50 dodge, added 50 parry. (more overall avoidance, mastery not reforgeable
Chest - dropped 69 hit, added 69 mastery.
Bracers - dropped 44 exp, added 44 mastery.
1h Weap - dropped 26 hit, added 26 parry (was more overall avoidance, mastery not reforgeable)
Shield - dropped 50 hit, added 50 parry (was more overall avoidance, mastery not reforgeable)
Ring 2 - dropped 44 dodge, added 44 parry (was more overall avoidance, mastery not reforgeable)
Ring 1 - dropped 50 dodge, added 50 parry (was more overall avoidance, mastery not reforgeable)
Boots - did not reforge at all, parry was more avoid than reforging to dodge, left all the mastery.
Legs - dropped 53 hit, added 53 mastery.
Waist - dropped 67 dodge, added 67 parry (was more overall avoidance, mastery not reforgeable)
Gloves - dropped 52 dodge, added 52 parry (was more overall avoidance, mastery not reforgeable)

What changes would someone else make ?


If I went all +40 mastery in yellows vs using the hybrids id gain 120 mastery and lose 180 stam, I dont feel thats a worth trade off at this point.

[MellvarTank]

I'm taking a look at your armory and seeing a few things that I would have done differently, as an fyi. (A little late now)

I would not have bought the valor ring, I would have picked up the t11 gloves first, the chest second, then the ring. I would run Incite instead of cruelty, and I wouldn't use impending victory (seems lackluster and not particularily useful). If you wanted cruelty, you could pull one point out of shield spec and both points out of impending victory, which I can explain why I don't use IV if you would like.

I understand the argument for stam/mastery gems, but until you are in hardmodes those gems are not necessary. You could run full mastery and be easier to heal. This is the argument for mastery, it isn't that you require less healing, it's that the smoother damage is easier for healers to heal.

The reforges listed above all seem fine.

[trueX]

Thanks that gave me some stuff to think about, as im not really raiding 10 or 25m I may actually go for all mastery gems in yellow and hybrids in blues and see what kinda stam hit I take as stam doesnt seem to be an issue atm.

Got the valor ring bc it was the best upgrade I felt I could get at the time using 346 gloves and a 333 ring, I didnt opt to go for the chest as I got the Icebone Haubark luckily in a world drop so I didnt feel it was good enough to NOT use it vs getting the t11 chest. My next buy will be the t11 gloves, then legs for 2 set.

Thx for the talents ideas, will try those also

[Kazeyonoma]

moved to HALP forum.

[seess]

Thx so far for all that, yes for a moment I did reforge for some expertise but was just messing around, I guess the armory didnt update but im now at 4 exp.

Also where are you getting that my parry is deep into DR ? I thought it was just starting at 14%, which im just under in stam gear, where is the cutoff, if that are true, I will start reforging the items that dont change avoidance at all with iter4ms that kept my parry to dodge and keep the same avoidance, lower my parry and up my dodge.

That sounds good, but it is a little difficult to do it. I have similar experience.

[Riz]

Ive always been told that dodge, and parry diminish with EVERY point...From the start..
You also want your parry higher for Hold the Line(ofcourse keeping them even, you can jump ahead with food,elixers, etc. But i prefer to be 1% ahead)

[trueX]

Yes I respecced to the above poster talent build getting full incite and 1/2 cruelty and dropping Impending Victory, liking it so far for the threat gains of back to back crit heroic strikes. Also parry is about 1% above my dodge, got the Epic Trash BoT gun and reforged the exp to dodge, so now I have like 13.5 parry, 12.5 dodge, and 10 expertise, getting well rounded and with patch 4.1 my shield will get a socket I can throw a gem in. Thinking of taking all my blue 60 stam gems and going mastery/stam and getting into raiding with a alt guild run.