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Thread: Need hlp Magmaws munching us

  1. #21
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    Hi guys unfortunatly after using /combatlog i cant find the log in my wow/logs got no idea why we go again sunday will try to do it again then. in general the fight seemed to go a lot better last night and just seemed to lose guys to silly mistakes the healers are going flat out and keeping all up a lot better but complaining about mana issuse but think this is normal not 100% though will link logs as soon as i can.

    would like to say thx to all and there advice and soz for being such a pain
    Ishamael

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinafoi View Post
    For a 10 man normal raid...

    So a tank that takes 25-30% of the total damage on the fight when properly executed using a single tank method is more important than the raid that takes the 70-75% of the total damage.

    Just because you're top of the meter, does not mean you're greater than everyone else combined. As far as healing priorities are concerned you will find even in the groups you likely run with, healers are only healing the tank between 20-35% of their total healing and the majority of their healing is going to the raid.

    Inconsequential? If Magmaw hits you for 100,000. Magmaw hits the raid for 300,000. Just because he hits you harder, doesn't mean you're harder to heal than everyone else combined.


    I'm not saying healing this fight is particular hard. But your comment seems to portray a severe lack of understanding of how healing functions today in Cataclysm.

    what i meant by my post, was that if anyone is going to die, it is most likely the tank during mangle.

    obviously theres is raid damage going around.

    actually i have a holy paladin a tank a mage and a hunter and have a firm grasp of what healing is like.

    triage.

    another issue may be that the healers are attemtping to keep all 10 people on 100% all the time, which would oom them like crazy.
    justin.tv/Belligra

    Watch me play SC2 ladder and enjoy the lolz

  3. #23
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    yeah they have laid off trying to keep all fully healed and working much better now cant belive were having this many probs i have mage main and a pally tank so not really got any idea with healing side have started a druid up now to learn a bit at lvl 50 now so hopefully soon will have a better understanding of the healing. i suggested to them going flat out healing and just keeping all up then figuring out where they can cut back is that a good idea?

  4. #24
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    We still need to see some actual logs if you want more specific advice on what is going wrong.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  5. #25
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    yea sorry about that dont know what happened cant find them in wow/logs for some reason will try again tonight

  6. #26
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    While nobody can really say exactly what's going wrong without logs there is really only 2 possibilities, either people are getting hit by unnecessary damage, ie lava pillars or head smashes, or your healers are really bad. Possibly a combination of the two, but there really isn't any other way lava spew should be killing people. Especially on normal mode.
    He who is afraid to lose will never win.
    Only when the power of love overcomes the worlds love of power, will mankind know peace.

  7. #27
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    soz for not linking logs yet guys we have not been able to go due to ill team member soz for delay

  8. #28
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    HI Ishamaelazure,

    I was reading your post and you mentioned that you have your healers and ranged moving around. Hopefully the following is helpful.

    My guild is executing it as follows :

    My as MT(Atamosk) : Just to the right of the spike.
    Melee : everyone except, the Frost DK, to the right of the spike hugging Magmaw.
    Ranged : DK standing on ranged to get pillars and kite.

    The only time the Melee group moves is when I am being mangled and Magmaw does his bodyslam, and if the 'body slam' is on the melee group. Else they will just stand there. Reducing the movement helps with AoE heals on floor not being wasted. We also put a Lightwell between MT and Melee group(round about where the spike is).

    After each mangle, I found that the 1st hit after Magmaw was pinned down(besides that you have to taunt it off the top DPS in pinned phase) does hit for a considerable amount. So I normally safe my CD's for it to help healers. ie Shield Block and Dwarf Racial. During mangle I also use one CD to assist healers so they dont have to focus that much on me. Self heals that people in your group can use will help too. Healthstones, pots etc.

    Hope this advice helps you a bit, this is working for our guild currently.

  9. #29
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    It appears from all the replies and posts that you have the right set up and mechanics going. I would make one suggestion. Dps in the 1st phase is trivial, Worms are the number one priority. Once there down you can go back to DPSing the boss. But usually as soon as the worms are down another pillar follows right after it. As long as your doing the mechanics right, when his head gets impaled is the only time you should be concerned about the DPS focusing on magmaw. That bieng said, as to the person getting one shotted after the impale phase, its simple to fix. AIf you have DBM it will let you know when the "point of Vulnerability" (DPS Phase ) is almost over. When his head goes up it is very important that noone except the MT or OT is close to him. It has nothing to do with aggro, he will randomly target a raid member when u are running back to position. To avoid this make sure your team is not running back directly to their spots but instead, giving it a few seconds to let magmaw make his attack, which usually only takes 3 seconds, then go to your spots. DO NOT be close to him when his head goes up.

    Hope this helps and good luck

  10. #30
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    My guild has this boss on farm...

    but you might want to take a look at (Recount healing done) during the fight...

    We take / holy preist / Restro Druid / Holy palatin.... and we all heal between 12-13k Hps on recount and never oom so.. next time u face him just see if ur healer are pulling there fingers out or slacking....i know its not much advice, but can u post back the healer's Recount numbers....Also Not sure but are your healers using the Impale time to Heal raid to full then the rest of the time to Regen mana..

  11. #31
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    hi guys soz this took so long we been trying a few different ways will let you look heres the log http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/mqu3xr3aop52c77t/
    thx for all the hlp guys

    Ishamael

  12. #32
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    Looks like the parasites are not being dealt with effectively. The person that is the pillar of flame target should not be getting hit by the pillar. Whoever is the pillar of flame target needs to be able to get out of the lava on the ground asafp. From the looks of it your hunter is the pillar target. That hunter should be able to set down his frost trap before the pillar comes and then also help kill the parasites BEFORE the next pillar comes out. We call out about 2 or 3 seconds before the pillar comes out for everyone to switch and the dps start laying down their AOE where the pillar has been designated to land. Make sure that the target for pillar is at max distance or close to it when the pillar comes.
    Remember the parasites are far more important than the boss. Every single ranged dps is going to have to aoe dps those adds hard.

  13. #33
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    400k damage from being hit by magmaw when he slams hsi head down.

    521k from parasitic infection - beign hit by parasites.

    240k from the vomit by those infected.

    566k damage from being hit by parasites

    130k from pilalr of flame.

    as i said before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Illidra View Post
    if you're healers are failing to keep people up from spew your dps are either standing in fire / steam and then saying they wern't to not get yelled at.

    your raid aren't moving from things and are lying about it.

    /thread


    the head slam :
    Damage taken

    Actor Totals Hits Misses Total
    Cesaria 260898 53.1 % 4 65224.5 260898 0
    Yourpal 94014 19.1 % 2 47007.0 94014 0
    Mtheadz 56803 11.6 % 1 56803.0 56803 0
    Bloodworm 45557 9.3 % 6 7592.8 45557 0
    Noobz 17800 3.6 % 3 5933.3 17800 0
    Cat 16590 3.4 % 3 5530.0 16590 0
    491662 100.0 % 19 25876.9 491662 0
    cesria needs to move more.
    yourpal too.
    mtheadz isnt good but its passable.

    being hit by parasites:
    Damage taken

    Actor Totals Ticks Absorbed Resisted Misses Ab Total
    Xastraknight 375700 76.2 % 49 7667.3 375700 4 5158 38 217602 3 3
    Yourpal 54027 11.0 % 9 6003.0 54027 1 1160 9 65944 1 1
    Grafripeer 33675 6.8 % 5 6735.0 33675 0 0 4 33675 0 0
    Cesaria 19668 4.0 % 3 6556.0 19668 0 0 2 17210 0 0
    Ishamael 9737 2.0 % 1 9737.0 9737 0 0 1 2590 0 0
    492807 100.0 % 67 7355.3 492807 5 6318 54 337021 4 4
    either xastra is kiting badly.
    or he needs to not be attacking the parasites to look pro on recount.
    yourpal shoudl be no where near them and shouldnt be taking threat from them atall unless hes using RF.
    Last edited by Illidra; 04-04-2011 at 04:46 AM.
    justin.tv/Belligra

    Watch me play SC2 ladder and enjoy the lolz

  14. #34
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    Ok... so there are five attempts in that report.

    Your Mage did a total of 424 damage to Lava Parasites on all five attempts. There isn't even a Mage spell that does that low of damage, that was caused by Retribution Aura. Your mage never once cast any spell on the Lava Parasites.

    You also had a Shadow Priest that did a grand total of 1904 damage to Lava Parasites. Again, there isn't a spell in the Shadow Priests arsenal that would do this low of damage. This damage was caused by Retribution Aura. Your Shadow Priest never once cast any spell on the Lava Parasites.

    Your Rogue did a total of 4648 damage to Lava Parasites. Now normally a melee DPS shouldn't help with parasites, however a Rogue in particular has the luxury of Tricks of the Trade and can do considerable damage to the parasites spamming Fan of Knives while using tricks on a ranged DPS like a Hunter. For that matter, Fan of Knives can hit them from outside of melee range.

    It's no wonder you can't kill the adds. Two of your ranged DPS aren't even helping at all and the one melee DPS that would be the most useful helping is not. The Paladin and Death Knight should not be on the adds if you're killing them.

    You really need to use Recount I think. If nothing else it helps you weed out these situations in game. For example, you can view what people attacked in your last attempt very easily and determine right away that your Mage and Shadow Priest aren't helping on the adds at all. It's a simple matter of doing your job. Recount lists the top three things you attacked, there are only three things in this encounter... Magmaw, Lava Parasite, and Exposed Head of Magmaw.
    Last edited by Quinafoi; 04-04-2011 at 08:06 AM.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  15. #35
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    Ok right thx guys we were trying a different system due to players not being avalible the idea was the dk kite the adds i read it was possible for a dk to solo this postion while we stay on boss is this way possible? the dk was having trouble with adds so the 2 hunters switch to hlp him using miss direct onto the dk take it this was not a good idea?
    Oh between the grp was stacked in mdps area to make use of the healers aoe heals.
    Our normal system is the way they do it on the tank spot video with the healers and rdps moving as a group when pillars come having a dk kite and all rdps nuke them down which worked very well on the adds but healers were really struggling to keep us all up best attempt we got that way was got magmaw to 13% normally get him to around 50% due to a team member not being avalible we not been able to use this system lately. do you think were just better off waiting for the full team or carry on trying diiferent systems? soz for being a complete pain guys and thx again for all the help and advice


    Ishamael

  16. #36
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    If the DK can't generate threat on their own, it won't work. Misdirect is only a temporary threat transfer. Keep that in mind. While it may help them initially, eventually that threat simply goes back to the hunter and the DK loses that threat and potentially aggro on the Lava Parasites to perhaps a healer. If they can't generate sufficient threat on their own, then they shouldn't be kiting.

    Your DK wasn't doing a very good job of kiting. Kiting requires a bit of skill and honestly if you don't have it you're better off just killing the adds. If he's being hit by adds, then he isn't kiting well. There is a difference between kiting and tanking on the move. Kiting in its true form you should never be hit at all.

    In all honesty if your group is having this many problems with the adds you should kill them. This shouldn't even be a second thought. A dead problem is no longer a problem once its dead. While killing them will be slower, if you get rid of your problem you don't have to deal with it as long. That or recruit a protection warrior to solo them by tanking them and spamming Victory Rush each time they kill one.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  17. #37
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    ah kk tyvm will defo get them nuked down then were going again thursday are we better off stacking in mdps and nuking down from there? our healers are finding it easier from that postion or go back to our original moving ranged grp?

    Ishamael

  18. #38
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    You only need one person at range to be the bait for the Pillar of Flame, usually a hunter since they want to be ranged anyway. They can also lay a frost trap where they stand and should be well away from where the rest of the raid is. Ranged DPS (and potentially the Rogue using Tricks) can then AoE the adds down before they reach the raid.

    All other advice still applies, such as having them aggroed onto a hunter/warlock pet to keep them in one place for longer. Also knockbacks like Typhoon can be used on them to knock them back into the frost trap once they are out of it, extending the duration of the snare though you should be careful not to split the adds up otherwise AoE will be less effective.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  19. #39
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    A 1 tank strat on this fight helps loads as our guild struggled also with adds and excess damage going out. Prott warrior or pally ideal as they both self heal freeing up mana for your tank dps. Have the add tank eat all the worms leaving you dps and healers fo kill boss avoid ignite and heal MT up from mangle. Seriously it makes this fight trivial and as soon as we swapped to this way we got him. The healers and dps have no excuse not to move as they arnt dodging worms. Dps goes up on boss massively as you arnt killing any worms and you will prop find that you get one less spike phase this way shortening fight and helping mana pools.
    Try it. I add tank now and always top recount 28-30k dps as hitting 10worms with shockwave and rend and thundershock = pretty yellow numbers. :-)

    Vong
    So long and thanks for all this fish

  20. #40
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