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Thread: Handling Magmaw Adds

  1. #1
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    Handling Magmaw Adds

    Hey guys my guild just attempted Magmaw tonight for a start to cata raiding (after downing BH). Only a couple of us had experience with any of the cata raids and after a few wipes we decided we needed a better group before trying again. I was wondering what people generally thought to be the best way to handle the adds in this fight as I have heard a variety of methods such as:

    Dk kiting
    Ranged killing
    Off tank

    If anyone has tried a few different methods and had particular success with anything I would be interested

  2. #2
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    I'm in a weekly 10man. We've had pretty good success with Magmaw recently. For us it's mainly about ranged. We usually have 3 ranged, which include my Hunter, a Mage and lately Boomkin. That's been working well for us. The first time we took him down, we were short on ranged and had our rogue come out and use Fan of Knives. Tanking never really seemed to be an option because the chance of infection is too high. We don't have a DK, so we haven't tried that. Everything we saw before our attempts was ranged, so that's what we've gone with. Additional note...the Boomkin blow back (Typhoon, I think) is really helpful on the parasites. It throws them back enough to give your other ranged a little breathing room.

  3. #3
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    it all depends on your group setup, if your gonna kill them u have to have a reliable slow such as a hunter in the group who wont die to fire pillar and some strong ranged aoe dps, if you dont have that but have a good dk your next best option is a dk kiting but that relys on having a good dk with some awareness and if you dont have either, off tanking works fine. its all a matter of building it to your raid composition.

  4. #4
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    Kiting = Most efficient.
    Only one player is required to deal with the adds and they should not be taking any damage from the adds, only damage from Magmaw's abilties which hit the entire raid. This has the lowest DPS allocation to dealing with the adds as well as the lowest healing allocation.

    Killing = Second best.
    Using primarily ranged DPS to kill them quickly, generally with the goal of killing them before the next wave spawns. You never leave adds up so there is never a concern with loose adds. Killing units is the most effective way of dealing with adds, however this does mean the fight will last longer since DPS is being pulled off the boss. Generally pets are used to help hold the adds in position like Hunter Tenacity pets and Warlock Felguard because pets can not be infected by the adds.

    Tanking = Weakest method.
    This is the worst method because while like the kiting method it only requires one player, it has one major difference, that player is taking damage from the adds. Generally speaking doing the tanking method, this off tank will take close to two thirds the total damage of the main tank, effectively increasing the healing requirement of the encounter by around 30-50% (you are taking damage that is unnecessary). While this method may be easy for groups farming the content, groups just starting it will have a hard time keeping up with the higher healing requirement. This is why you CC trash in heroics, but then once you start to outgear it you stop CCing, taking extra damage becomes less threatening as you reach the point where you can deal with it.


    For a group that is just starting raiding content you should either be kiting or killing the adds. Tanking them will put too much strain on your healers, especially when first learning the encounter.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  5. #5
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    Does the "Tanking=weakest method" also apply to prot warrior tanking? We are starting to raid and the idea was to have a prot warrior tank them. I saw comments that due to getting all the killing blows and stacking Vengeance that would be a good method. Or is this rather for better geared groups?
    Also regarding the main tank and mangle: Is he taking heavier damage during mangle or afterwards due to the armor debuff? I.e. should he use his major cooldown while he is mangled, or afterwards?

    Thanks for the help

  6. #6
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    I just did Magmaw this weekend on my hunter and we had me kite them toward the raid and the range mowed them down (only used one tank of the fight) if they go too close a druid used his blow back. The reason for this was that the raid was stacked up close and to the left of Magmaw and the back of the room was out of heal range. One thing about the hunter is that the number of targets our AoE hits has been reduced, so you tend to get some stray worms. I used my Gorilla (tenacity) pet who was happy to tank as many worms as would aggro to him.

    I've kited/killed them as a DK and I can't say one method is better then the other.

  7. #7
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    Again, you are taking damage that is otherwise avoidable. Not to say tanking isn't a viable method, but taking any damage when you could ideally take no damage means your raid has to heal more. Naturally if the encounter does 25,000 DPS to your raid normally, you need to heal about 25,000 HPS to survive it (about). If you take more damage, you increase the total healing throughput required. That is why tanking them is generally weaker than kiting them, because there is more strain on your healing required, even if that healing is augmented by Victory Rush the total healing required to complete the encounter is higher.

    Parasite Evening
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinafoi View Post
    Again, you are taking damage that is otherwise avoidable. Not to say tanking isn't a viable method, but taking any damage when you could ideally take no damage means your raid has to heal more. Naturally if the encounter does 25,000 DPS to your raid normally, you need to heal about 25,000 HPS to survive it (about). If you take more damage, you increase the total healing throughput required. That is why tanking them is generally weaker than kiting them, because there is more strain on your healing required, even if that healing is augmented by Victory Rush the total healing required to complete the encounter is higher.

    Parasite Evening
    If you tank them a DK, you take the same damage as kiting with a hunter, basically it's the fire spit from Magmaw. However, standing in and tanking them I agree, not worth it. Acutally, I found kiting on the DK somewhat easier, the snap aggro on the whole pack from DnD really lasted the enitre period while range burned them and I used the whole back of the room.

  9. #9
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    I think you may be misunderstanding the difference between tanking and kiting.

    You take more damage "tanking" them because you are...

    1. Allowing them to infect you. You take damage from being infected.
    2. Allowing them to melee you, they actually do attack.

    If you are kiting them and staying out of their melee range you are not taking any damage from them. That's the difference. Tanking is holding them in one spot taking punches in the face. Kiting is moving around so that you are never in range to take a punch. Zero punches, zero damage.

    Your definition of "DK tank" is actually "kiting".
    Last edited by Quinafoi; 03-07-2011 at 12:47 PM.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinafoi View Post
    I think you may be misunderstanding the difference between tanking and kiting.

    You take more damage "tanking" them because you are...

    1. Allowing them to infect you. You take damage from being infected.
    2. Allowing them to melee you, they actually do attack.

    If you are kiting them and staying out of their melee range you are not taking any damage from them. That's the difference. Tanking is holding them in one spot taking punches in the face. Kiting is moving around so that you are never in range to take a punch. Zero punches, zero damage.

    Your definition of "DK tanking" is actually "kiting".
    No I understand, we agree. I was kiting with my tank (probably better way to put it), that's all and felt that kiting with the DK tank was easier then with the hunter. I also think kiting and killing is probably the easier way to do it when you're first getting used to the fight.

  11. #11
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    you should get used to killing them so when you switch to heroic tries you wont have to learn how to do that on top of everything else.

  12. #12
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    Well we are looking at taking another stab at magmaw this next week, being a little more careful in the pug healers we pick up. Just to clarify do people recommend having a single hunter standing at range or a whole ranged group?

  13. #13
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    I think you want all the ranged that are AOE-ing the parasites standing in one spot, otherwise the pesky little things will spread out.

    Regarding my question earlier, we had our prot warrior tanking+killing them on our last try. Worked well, he had them under control but he also took as much healing as the main tank. What killed us was that it looked like the raid took more damage after the spike phase than before and suddenly there was chaos and dead people, leading to a wipe....

  14. #14
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    more questions on magmaw...

    for ignite? If it's on the tank side of the area does the tank move over to the left of the chain?

    And for single tanking magmaw, the melt armor cannot be dispelled correct? How long of a debuff is it?


    thanks.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoat View Post
    for ignite? If it's on the tank side of the area does the tank move over to the left of the chain?

    And for single tanking magmaw, the melt armor cannot be dispelled correct? How long of a debuff is it?


    thanks.
    With regards to ignite - this always happens when the tank is being eaten by magmaw. The tank doesn't need to worry about it.

    My guild has defeated magmaw with me (paladin) tanking solo. The debuff lasts a couple of minutes and the only way out of it is a pally bubble. I bubbled out of it once and after that we just had to turn up the healing. You can heal through it, but tanks should assist by using cooldowns and focus on self healing if possible.

  16. #16
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    thank you

  17. #17
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    when we first tried magmaw we went with add killing strategy.. wasnt working so well due to our raid comp (no slows and lack of burst aoe). as we have two warrior MTs, we went with a off tank strat. makes the fight quite cheesy imo because all dps have to do is pew pew, switch sides when room steams and get the chain thingys.

    with a prot warrior, once the worms start to die, VR gets them a lot of self healing, so its not much load on the healers either. whilst it may still require more healing than the kill adds strategy, on the flip side, i would say you get your magmaw kills quicker as dps is entirely focused on him throughout the fight.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinafoi View Post
    I think you may be misunderstanding the difference between tanking and kiting.

    You take more damage "tanking" them because you are...

    1. Allowing them to infect you. You take damage from being infected.
    2. Allowing them to melee you, they actually do attack.

    If you are kiting them and staying out of their melee range you are not taking any damage from them.
    You're also not doing much damage to them. Pretty big sacrifice. I put out 15-20k DPS while tanking the adds in place. Enough so that my DPS can stay focused on Magmaw almost exclusively and leave me to my business.

    That, plus Victory Rush for self healing means tanking is actually superior to kiting for our raids. Perhaps not for yours but I would not over generalize and say OT is the "weakest method" by any means. It adds a great deal of control and predictability to the fight.

    If healer mana were a limiting factor, I would agree tanking is inferior - but it's really not. 98% of wipes come from poor add control, lack of add DPS or poor execution on the spikes during mangle resulting in tank death. I can't remember a single wipe due to healer OOM or raw tank death. It's actually a relatively short fight.

  19. #19
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    We found that the easiest method though it may be healer intensive is to simply off-tank the adds. like some have said already it makes the fight much more predictable and really makes the fight way easy.

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