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Thread: Confused...don't we need hit? Reforgenator is telling me no...

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    144
    Some people are confused about how Vengeance is generated. It is NOT generated by the damage you do, it is generated by the damage done TO you. Therefore, the more avoidance/block/armor you have, the less Vengeance you will generate. I have noticed this in action when, during a boss fight, I sometimes see Vengeance ticking down instead of up.

    In case anyone who wasn't aware of this wants proof, here are the links to the specializations:

    DK / Pally / Warrior / Druid

    Also, Here is an interesting blog by GC himself on Vengeance.

    So basically, the better you are at survivability (more dodge/parry/block), the worse you will be with threat (less Vengeance). This is incredibly broken IMO -- as if Vengeance wasn't a kluge in the first place. The point of Vengeance (as GC said) was to make up for all the survivability in tanking gear (and lack of threat in said gear), but that survivability is actually reducing Vengeance.

    Back to the OP: Personally, after the HoPo "bugfix", I can't stand missing my target, so I hit cap and get a bit of expertise too. That's my preference, I don't believe that it is the only way to do it, but I haven't noticed any reduction in survivability yet.

    So if you need more threat, then moving avoidance into hit/exp might be the way to go. Not only will you hit more often, but you will dodge/parry less and thus increase your total (and/or maintain your active) vengeance. Just don't do it to the point that your healers hate you.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    An important point - it's not that you're worse at vengence. Vengence is a factor of current max health.

    It's the more avoid/dodge you have the SLOWER vengence stacks. You're not worse with threat, you're slower at improving it.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  3. #23
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    Jul 2010
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    Re: Confused...don't we need hit? Reforgenator is telling me no...

    True but not entirely. Even after you build it up, your avoidance/block can cause it to drop back down too. Using a CD will make it drop as well.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Dedic are you running raids right now? You are reforging using similar logic as me so maybe I could just keep what I got. I am stomping HC dungeons but I am worried now I will not get the same mileage out of my strategy in Tier 11 content.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    5
    [link]http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...s/arjac/simple[link]

    As you can see, from the time of this post, I am at 3.13% hit. The only time this is really bad is if you miss on the pull, but in either case I tell the DPS to not go all out for about 6 seconds after the boss is set in place. I open the pull with Divine Plea - Avenger's Shield - Shield of the Righteous - regular 'rotation'. The first part should give you a good lead on threat for the DPS to be able to open up, and I'll continue to use my 3 stacks of Holy Power for SotR for a few more rotations before using HoPo for Word of Glory for survivability. By the time I'm using WoG, Vengence has stacked enough that threat is no longer an issue, even with my 5% chance to miss.

    I just thoguht of this one: it's a domino effect! Most of it has to do with the current content of gear. Healers go OOM faster than Wrath so need to slow down heals but tank is taking too much damage... Tank reforges for dodge or mastery to take less damage while sacrificing hit/initial threat... DPS waits 4-6 seconds longer to stare at their DPS meters -_-

    The link will also tell you how I personally reforge/gem and you may message me for reasons behind, but they are personal choices/play styles that I'm sure most people have, and may not agree with mine

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    266
    I, as a warrior tank, make sure that I have a little hit and expertise (3% hit and 9 expertise right now) but I focus solely on survivability after that. I don't know how pally tanks differ since I stopped playing one when 4.0 hit. I didn't like the changes done to the 69 rotation. I do know, however, that the two pally tanks that I raid with use glyphed truth for the expertise there and get a little more, as well as keep a little more hit than I do.

    My survivability is just fine (except when tanking both Halfus and Slag at the same time with a few stacks of mortal strike, that hurts) and I have never had any threat issues on the pull. Warriors have a lot of tools to use and spam, but I don't know all the details of pallies. Maybe that's where it differs.

  7. #27
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    Jul 2010
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    144

    Re: Confused...don't we need hit? Reforgenator is telling me no...

    I'm running normal raids. No problems with suvivability. That may change in heroics tho, oh and if the ptr nerf goes live too.

    Best thing is to see what works best for you...

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dedic View Post
    True but not entirely. Even after you build it up, your avoidance/block can cause it to drop back down too. Using a CD will make it drop as well.
    Not sure I follow. Vengence stacks, and once stacks in maintained as long as a minimum level of incoming damage is present, it doesn't just disappear. I don't see how you could, well outside of maybe bears that stack dodge, reach the point in a steady damage fight where vengence would start to dip.

    Maybe on a taunt-switch fight like BH, or air phases, but once stacked, you're probably going to take more than enough damage to keep vengence full. I'm still having trouble finding vengence levels in the game, so maybe I'm missing something, but I really don't see this as a problem?
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

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