Raids are fun - heroic pugs are kind of like the purgatory that allows you to get into raid heaven.
As a new Wow player I found the game pretty rewarding for my time. I started around mid December 2010 and I am Heroic ready Pally Tank already.. I tried Heroics at 331 gear level and decided to get it together a little better first, no way was it supposed to be that hard.
Item level has increased a lot now, skill level too. I got my buffs, interupts, I know my rotation what it does, how to do more DPS and when to use WoG healing with my HoPo instead.. Still waiting for Cata Heroics to be fun.. There is so much going on in a fight that someone always dies, or we wipe. Some bosses are dependant on if you interupt in time..
Is this the challenge that is supposed to be fun and I just don't like this game? The success rate for me is low still, been playing only 2 months, but does it get fun? I like PVP at least, but Heroic dungeons have no reward for too many hours invested.. Just too many wipe wipe wipe, oh you finally didn't stand in the stuff hooray.. we took it finally ugh
SO TRUE...as a tank I get asked to do heroics a lot. They are such a pain at the moment and I find they sap my energy fast. Once you get raiding life is good again, Cata's raids are damn good.
Thanks to both of you.. It helps to know others can grow quickly fatigued by Cata Heroics and move past that to have fun again. I have some time in those dungeons still, I am going to try and enjoy it somehow.
I am going to tell you what I hate hearing but doesn't make the statement less true. Run heroics with guild members or a group of people from your server that you know. Build a group of trusted friends you can run with and only pug when you must. Your success rate will go up and things are usually much more fun when you can run with people you know. I'm sick of being told this but it is unfortunately the truth. There are many players lacking in common sense or awareness. Some are bad and some are just inexperienced and slowly getting better. I'm probably being to kind here but I have a lot of patience when it comes to what I hope/pretend are new players. All that being said, pugging heroics can often be torture.
I just dont PuG HC's anymore to be honest and if i really have to i always DPS never tank!
i just got sick of being told it was my fault as the tank when half the DPS are standing in stuff im the only one interupting and everyone just shouts
JUST GO when i try to explain why they wipe
Pugs are horrible get a nice guild an it becomes fun
I've kind of starting tanking pugs again on my DK which gearing up nicely and I wanted to speed up getting rep; but it's not an everyday thing. I have to be in the mood, and I've gotten to the point of "I take no crap, period"; one peep out of some dps'r or healer and I leave, find another tank. Frankly, I have other toons I can do things on and listening to some fail 15 year old dps'r complain cause I didn't save them from themselves isn't one of them.
However, I'll pug anything on my hunter or mage; dps is just mindless pew pew compared to tanking or healing.
To be honest, I don't understand all the fuz about heroics. If it's not challenging it's not fun. If you can run through it it's not fun.
Having made that statement. Before the patch I could already run heroics pretty easily and with only 1 or 2 wipes with our guild. Now, after the patch, I run them without CC with the guild. In a pug it depends on the pug. A lot of times they are very easy with a little CC and we can run them without a wipe.
Sometimes I have a player that won't listen. 2 Days ago I had one that wanted to pull before I did. I warned him 1 time. The 2nd time I waited with charging until he was dead. The 3rd time also. After that he didn't pull anymore. I don't accept crap. Usually that works great.
Sometimes I find myself a nice group and I can even learn a few mechanics to others. With the right persons they are gratefull and I like it.
All in all, heroics are easy once you understand the mechanics. If you don't, make sure you learn them and don't charge in without knowing what to do. Than heroics are fun. If you can't make it in heroics you can't make it in raids beceause the mechanics in there usually require more concentration and you need more situational awareness.
It's important that you get satisfaction from being the best and / or from completing those heroics.
Sorry, can't make it better for you. If you don't like that, than don't pve.
You've played for two months and realized you haven't mastered the entire game so therefore it is too hard. Others have played for over six years (many of which haven't mastered the entire game).
Perhaps you would prefer a game like chutes and ladders. You roll a dice, you win. You roll a dice, you lose. There is nothing you can do to change the randomness. There is no strategy or skill which leads to repeatable success.
A game with challenges in it for you to overcome are there for the purpose of overcoming. By improving yourself, your methods, your skills, your strategies... you reduce the randomness in the encounter and shift the odds of success in your favor. When I first ran heroics right after hitting 85 at 329 item level, we wiped a lot. Hell, most of the heroics were actually harder then as well. We overcame the challenges. Now when I run with similar groups we can defeat the encounter even when the most random of factors occurs such as the tank disconnecting. Experience, skill, and strategy make what was challenging significantly easier over time. It is no longer a random roll a dice and we lose.
Overcoming challenges is what people enjoy about this game.
Last edited by Quinafoi; 02-24-2011 at 09:54 AM. Reason: spelling
"In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.
If anything I would say to find a guild and try to run heroics with them first while you hone your skills and get better gear.
The reward is not the points you gain, or the items that drop. The reward is conquering a challenge you didn't before. The advantage of an ever growing and changing world is the challenges are limitless. When you conquer one challenge, there is another before you.
I didn't beat Super Mario Brothers the first time I turned on my NES when I was younger. However, I gradually got better, progressing further and further until I finally beat it. You get to the end of that level and run into a little castle and fireworks shoot off, and then you move on to the next level, the next challenge.
The difference in this modern age of gaming is that sometimes, particularly with the MMO genre, the challenges don't have to stop once you "beat the game". There is more and more challenges presented to you through patches or expansions, and because of that you continue playing. For the enjoyment you feel when you overcome those obstacles placed before you.
That's what makes an MMO enjoyable. You conquer your challenge and then you move on to the new ones presented for you.
"In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.
I actualy find it verry entertaining as a tank to do heroics. This because I always take my own healer with me (He's my heal$%#*@). This way when the dps decides to pull before I do this will result in one high repair bill for that guy.
But I see your frustration. The thing is you can pretty much ignore any critisism which is in the form of : Your doing this wrong. Unless someone tells me how to do something better so I can improve myself I just ignore them.
EU | Genjuros | Buffalowings
-| Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment. |-
I have done a complete 180 thanks to your input here on this thread and searching the forums for others input. Part of the problem is all the QQ out there makes you as a new comer think something is really wrong, but nothing is wrong it isn't too hard. Just mechanics.
I entered Deadmines last night with my guild, we are taking all the bosses on the first tries.. My problem before last night was 2 x melee, 1 x ranged, me and healer. We were healing too much and not taking the dungeons down in time, we used our 2nd ranged instead and we honestly are a little bored for some of it. Although we were pwned by trash twice that is a little embarrassing. But funny
Now I realize the problem isn't Heroics are too hard... It is that Cata normal dungeons are too easy and they do not prepare a new player for what is really coming. You don't learn to carefully inspect your team, check combat logs and to build strategies. When you learn this is the correct path and that everything Heroic is meant to be a challenge or puzzle each team has to personally solve their specific mechanics for it suddenly becomes fun.. I am counting the minutes until we go back in the dungeons today... =}
P.S. Game told me to move on from Heroic Dungeons last night tho. LOLZ
Raid Ready =}
@ the OP. You also have to keep in mind that A LOT of the QQing is coming from the people that started in Wrath. Wrath took the game and dumbed it down... a lot, when I could tank a Heroic dungeon in Fury spec something is wrong. In Cata blizz took it back to the "shit is gonna be hard" style and I love it. Although I hate having to tell someone what CC means and how to use it, I still have fun.
I wont tank a heroic PuGs unless I know the healer(s), I just dont trust them enough to know their class. But I will switch to tank if one drops just so I can get r done.
The dungeons aren't THAT much harder than cata...
What seems to be making heroics no fun is pugging them. I just got out of one I did for one of my guildies, just me and him, and it was a nightmare.
We get dropped into deadmines to replace a dk and warrior, ironically enough, who apparently started fighting about some gear drop off the first boss and promptly left. We clear up to the second boss, the healer gets the achievement for exalted with one of the cata factions and immediately drops group right before the pull.
Re queue and the next healer takes one look around "sorry guys, I don't want to do deadmines tonight" and drops.
The next healer does decent enough that we one-shot boss 2, but when we get to boss 3 it seems like nobody but me has ever been here before. The pally healer got eaten 3 times by reap, because he was standing right next to the boss and didn't notice the very obvious warnings that reap was about to go off. After each wipe I proceeded to show him where to stand, and what he should run from. I don't normally do it, but /votekick. Pretty sure we lost a dps at some point at third boss with the pally healer.
Thank goodness we kicked him, the next healer was sporting tier shoulders, knew all of his stuff, and the only semi-wipe was on trash after third boss, where I was tanking the first pull, both warrior types were in the middle of their extra damage routine, and my shockwave went off a second to late to stop a double ragezone right on top of me. I got gibbed about an eyeblink later, halfway out of the zone (I almost made it!). But even then the healer survived and one dps almost survived. One shot everything else and it was absolute heaven.
But I'm not sure my guildie getting the valor points was worth the first half of that dungeon. I usually don't queue without a healer I know for that very reason, but I didn't want to deprive my guildie of having to put up with a pug tank and a pug healer.
Yes i also got my share of tank leaving after Slabhide in Stonecore - he just came for mount drop
I also wear tabards to boost my standings with fractions - who isn't?
But to leave group in a middle of fight just because i got Exalted... that is absurd.
My standing on this:
I invest my time to run heroic. I will stay until the end unless i absolutely must leave. Which i try not to.
I won't leave group, i can see when i am close to Exalted and bring another rep tabard with me or i just don't care if i got it...
Simply - some people just don't have the same degree of responsibility as others. That's it.
Yeah when I first started I didn't want to drop pug groups because even though pugs mostly are full of people who can't find a guild that actually wants them sometimes you get good people hurt in the mix. But this game has taught me to worry about me and not waste my time with others.. Going around giving advice to flat out be a jerk is probably bad but hey it is what it is. If you want to drop group for any reason just drop the group you don't owe anyone anything. If you should be penalized you will get a 15 or 30 minute time out from the game itself so you will have to pay the price for leaving.
A lot of it comes down to your group. If your purely running randoms by yourself it really is luck of the draw. Sometimes you'll end up in a group where everyone knows how to play their role and the dungeon will be a breeze. Other times you'll get grouped up with four players that show no signs of intelligent life and the dungeon will be a long and painful grind, if you choose to stay. I guess that's the key, you can always leave. At works you'll have 30mins to spend doing something else. If you're a tank you still have the luxury of instant queues.
With the standard of pugs at the moment, Blizzard really need to up the Call to Arms bribe in order to make it worth my while. Personally I've noticed a drop in the standard of DPS in the random dungeon finder over the last week or two. It's surprising how much easier dungeons are when you have two or more DPS pulling 10k plus.
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