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Thread: Paladin heroic tanking.

  1. #1
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    Paladin heroic tanking.

    Hello,

    Just came back and did a ton of normal runs to get all of my gear over 333 anyways, I am having a really difficult time as a paladin tank with some things.

    Aoe seems really difficult. I run in with avengers, consecrate, judgement, shield of the righteous spam. Am i doing it right. 1. im out of mana, 2. in heroics i can't seem to pull without breaking cc or i go in and i only hit maybe 2 out of the 4 mobs with shield of the righteous.

    my pulls are terrible on aoe pulls which is like 90% of the trash. Boss fights i dont have a problem with but everything else has been really rough.

    heroic lfd is painful and i'd like to at least be the best i can.

  2. #2
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    An Armory Link and specific examples would help.
    Also are you using CC? CC is extremely important for Heroics, especially when you first start doing them.

  3. #3
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    I am not an expert in paladin tanking, but I have been tanking a lot lately and can maybe give some advice.

    Consecration is expensive. If you're running out of mana try not to use it for small groups. Holy Wrath is some good group AoE and costs a lot less.

    As for breaking CC, Hammer of the Righeous (our AoE equivalent to Crusader Strike, which I'm assuming you meant) is an 8yd AoE and will not care about CC. You need to pull and tank away from any CC, which usually means having the CC start the pull (hunter trap, sheep, etc). Avenger's Shield WILL avoid CC targets, so once they're in place you can use it to hit the remaining targets as they come back to you. Then do what you said: HotR alternating with Judgement (to keep mana up), Holy Wrath, and Avenger's Shield.

    Also I dunno if you do this, but marking targets for First Kill, Second Kill, etc and telling the DPS what they mean also helps keep the secondary targets on you and not the DPS. If they don't follow those marks I say let them die: it's the only way they'll learn

  4. #4
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    Re: Paladin heroic tanking.

    1. Forget you have consecrate. Don't talent for it, don't glyph for it. Blizz essentially took it away. We are nerfadins, after all...

    2. What the previous post says.

  5. #5
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    I don't know if I have just been the most lucky tankadin in the world, but since I started tanking in Cata I found that Avenger's Shield does indeed concider CC. When CC is up and i use Avenger's Shield it never hits the CC.

    The only way I break CC is if i run straight into the group and use Holy Wrath or HotR, that will break the CC but I'm pretty sure Avenger's Shield won't

    As I said, it might just be some unbelievable luck on my side..But who knows

  6. #6
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    Avenger's Shield DOES NOT BREAK CC, unless you are targeting the CC Target as the first strike for the Avenger's Shield.

  7. #7
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    Paladin heroic tanking.

    Also, it's important to remember that you don't need to hit everything where it stands and rush to it. My cc'ers start the pull and step behind me. I wait for everything to come to me first and AS as they get close. Hammer them next followed by holy wrath and they're mine.

    The only time I put an AS near the cc is if a caster is left uncontrolled. I know it doesn't break cc but if I don't need to use it that close, I don't.
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  8. #8
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    Another thought, when AE tanking, After your dps have started the pull with a CC pop your divine plea for a 3 stack of HP, hit your Inq and start your Hammer / AS / Judge spam. That extra bit of holy damage does worlds for your threat right off the start, much more than Conc could. I also use Inq on every Hp stack after that for the extra damage, i personally find it almost useless to use SotR on trash pulls unless your loosing threat. Works for me, hope it helps you
    "Im a little paladin, short and stout. Heres my hammer heres my mount. When i see a battle i bubble and hearth right out!"

  9. #9
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    Pally AOE tanking is basaclly gone, its easier for other tanks to do it.

    as for pulls you have to just be smart on what u CC think of your bounce and think of what will stay in one spot(hunter mobs), also u can try to time the pull with the cc so there cc hits a second after you pull type thing... its all comes with time, old players will get it quicker but WOTLK players are learning something fairly new,honestly.


    make sure u mark a kill order and tell your group to single target Skull down first then they can aoe, this way as u are doing all your aoe by the time skull dies u should be set.


    as for mana use judgment when ever it is up, the only time i ever run out of mana is when i dont even think about using judgment and i add consecration in my rotation (i have it speced into it with 1 point..


    as for the person claiming forget about consecration, it is still a good idea to toss in at the start of an aoe pull... most top Tankadins have 2 specs an aoe tanking spec and a single target tanking spec, then main difference is they are using consecration in there aoe pulls

  10. #10
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    What about Glyph of Focused shield? I was having so many problems with my bounces going almost completely behind me that I glyph'd into this.. Same problem, major complaints.. Now I don't get the complaints but I fight for AOE threat.

  11. #11
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    Paladin heroic tanking.

    Focused shield will make aoe worse as you will hit one ttarget only. When the shield goes zipping across the screen it is because you missed. That happens occassionally as tanks are not focusing on hit or expertise.

    In wrath of the lich king, pally threat was so good that if there were four mobs, dps could all be on a different target and none on your target and you would still usually hold aggro. That is no longer true for any tank. Pally or dk is still the best aoe tank but warriors, and to some degree, bears have closed the gap a little.

    Make sure you mark a kill order. Make sure you can see party targets. I will bet most times you lose threat, someone is not on your target.

    If that is not the case:
    1. Use seal of truth
    2. Rotation should be either crusader strike or hammer of righteouness EVERY second ability. Fill in between with whatever is not on cd. I would start by not using consecrate, however. You can add that back in if you want after you get everything else ironed out.
    3. Are you gearing properly?
    4. If you see your avengers shield miss on the pull, use avenging wrath to make up the threat quickly and be ready to taunt if you need to.
    5. Get the addon TidyPlates and the plugin for it TidyPlates:ThreatPlates. You will see your aggro by the size and color of the mob's name plate to help predict when you are about to lose threat on a mob but before you actually lose it.
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dagimp007 View Post
    Pally AOE tanking is basaclly gone, its easier for other tanks to do it.
    I have to disagree on that. I find AoE tanking to be way easier with my Pally than my DK.

  13. #13
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    When doing a big trash pull (the first groups in bastion for example):

    divine plea
    avenging wrath
    Inquisition
    avenger's shield
    judgement on a target that didn't get an AS jump
    HotR
    Consecrate
    HotR
    holy wrath
    HotR
    judge for the mana and to not clip the last second of Inq
    Inquisition
    HotR
    Avenger's shield
    etc.

    This also works for groups on mobs in heroic instances (e.g. the 4 casters or the geists + zombies in SFK). If I have less than 25k dps I am a sad bunny :<

  14. #14
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    Thanks for the points on focused shield, going to get rid of it.

  15. #15
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    Re: Paladin heroic tanking.

    Just had to mention this cuz the thread mentions dps not attacking the right mob:

    My favorite heroic pug was one when we pugged a healer and after the first pull, he goes "assist off the fu**ing tank people!" That made me smile.

  16. #16
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    Does anyone else pop Divine Plea/Inq again during the fight too, it seems productive but I am not sure. If Divine Plea goes off cool down I treat it as a guaranteed HoPo, so I skip CS/SoTR for it on that round.

    Is anyone combining Divine Plea and Inquisition into a single macro? Currently I combine nothing together into a macro but does anything combine practicality into one button? I do use Inq when divine plea is on cool down, but it shouldn't matter to try and fire it again.

  17. #17
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    I only use divine plea on a boss fight and what i do is i work up to 3 Holy Power and then i pop avenger shield/Inq/Divine plea in that order. And i hope i have Sacred Shield proc'd as well which will give me like a 40k SotR which helps with threat at the start and i never lose agro after i pop that, and if anyone gets close i just throw Salvation on them. But no i don't have them macro'd together but it could be done.

  18. #18
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    @kokkis: half of what you have said in the thread makes NO SENSE-

    "use HotR facing AWAY from the CC so have your back towards the CC'd targets" - WRONG- HotR is a 8 yd radius, not a frontal cone like Warrior's shockwave.

    "what i do is i work up to 3 Holy Power and then i pop avenger shield/Inq/Divine plea in that order." - once you have 3 holy power SPEND IT. if you hit inquisition first, AS will be buffed by 30%. it is holy damage...

    "And i hope i have Sacred Shield proc'd as well which will give me like a 40k SotR " Sacred Shield is a fourth tier RET talent, (which is a damage absorb) no way a prot pally can get there. Holy Shield (the prot talent) adds 10% to the damage mitigation of a shield block. neither of which in any way buffs SotR.

    "And some ppl say use Inquisition i personally don't with my Holy Power i use either WoG or SoR." Inquisition buffs holy damage by 30%, HotR = holy damage, holy wrath = holy damage, consecrate = holy damage, AS = holy damage, judgement = holy damage, what's not to love?

    Divine plea- with 3/3 in the "shield of the templar" talent, grants 3 holy power instantly. that is its main benefit. what you use it on depends on the situation. need snap aggro on a single target? DP SotR. need a little more AoE aggro? DP inquisition. need some emergency heals? DP WoG (yes i know that divine plea reduces healing done by 50%, but with other talents... and as an emergency heal...)

    please do some homework before offering advice. or at least read the spell tooltips.

    Doc

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc309 View Post
    @kokkis: half of what you have said in the thread makes NO SENSE-

    "use HotR facing AWAY from the CC so have your back towards the CC'd targets" - WRONG- HotR is a 8 yd radius, not a frontal cone like Warrior's shockwave.
    correct

    "what i do is i work up to 3 Holy Power and then i pop avenger shield/Inq/Divine plea in that order." - once you have 3 holy power SPEND IT. if you hit inquisition first, AS will be buffed by 30%. it is holy damage...
    when you have 3 HoPo spend it...on ShoR, unless you are tanking a large amount of mobs or pulling the boss.

    "And i hope i have Sacred Shield proc'd as well which will give me like a 40k SotR " Sacred Shield is a fourth tier RET talent, (which is a damage absorb) no way a prot pally can get there. Holy Shield (the prot talent) adds 10% to the damage mitigation of a shield block. neither of which in any way buffs SotR.
    I think he meant sacred duty

    "And some ppl say use Inquisition i personally don't with my Holy Power i use either WoG or SoR." Inquisition buffs holy damage by 30%, HotR = holy damage, holy wrath = holy damage, consecrate = holy damage, AS = holy damage, judgement = holy damage, what's not to love?
    with the changes to HoPo generation it is better to invest HoPo in ShoR or WoG. Before the patch the "Inq if SD not proc else ShoR" rotation generated slightly more tps, however now that you can never guarantee to have the 3 HoPo it is probably better to simply use ShoR/WoG.

    Divine plea- with 3/3 in the "shield of the templar" talent, grants 3 holy power instantly. that is its main benefit. what you use it on depends on the situation. need snap aggro on a single target? DP SotR. need a little more AoE aggro? DP inquisition. need some emergency heals? DP WoG (yes i know that divine plea reduces healing done by 50%, but with other talents... and as an emergency heal...)
    Code:
    /cancelaura Divine Plea
    /cast World of Glory

  20. #20
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    Pyrea
    you may be right about sacred duty
    But that procs off of judgement. which he never even mentioned. ( but i hope that it can be assumed that it is part of his building 3 Holy Power....)

    and thank you for the cancel aura idea, going to macro that into my WoG right now

    Doc

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