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Thread: PVE vs PVP effects for Colossus Smash

  1. #1
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    PVE vs PVP effects for Colossus Smash

    So now Colossus Smash will do one thing in PVP and a different thing in PVE. Can I get an AMEN?!?

    Is this finally the beginning of a better paradigm for tuning PVP separate from PVE? Please God let it be so.

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    One can only hope

  3. #3
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    I saw that last night and I thought to myself, "Isn't this the very thing they said they didn't want to have happen?" That said, I don't think it's bad. 100% Colossus Smash is fun for PvE, and apparently OP for PvP, so it's cool they can dial it back in PvP without killing PvE damage.
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  4. #4
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    It's a little unprecedented, only in that previously the only PvE / PvP difference were general effects, not specific abilities

    8 second CC duration.
    Silence being an interrupt on silence immune npcs or some confusingly worded thing that doesn't effect Warriors so I have no idea.

    I swear there's another PvE/PvP difference too...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muffin Man View Post
    It's a little unprecedented, only in that previously the only PvE / PvP difference were general effects, not specific abilities

    8 second CC duration.
    Silence being an interrupt on silence immune npcs or some confusingly worded thing that doesn't effect Warriors so I have no idea.

    I swear there's another PvE/PvP difference too...
    Don't forget certain abilities (specifically Bloodlust) being VERBOTEN in arena

  6. #6
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    I don't see this as a big shift. The amount of dmg an attack did to players often were different in PVP and PVE. That's because of resilience. It's there a long time now. Sure armor is not resilience and stuff, but NPC armor was at quite other values than most player armor for a long time, too. The change does not change the idea of CS. It does not change when you want to use it. It does not change the kind of affect it has on the next attacks. The only difference is in the amount of affect it has to the following attacks.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muffin Man View Post
    It's a little unprecedented, only in that previously the only PvE / PvP difference were general effects, not specific abilities

    8 second CC duration.
    Silence being an interrupt on silence immune npcs or some confusingly worded thing that doesn't effect Warriors so I have no idea.

    I swear there's another PvE/PvP difference too...
    TAUNT leaps to mind!

    Sorry, it's a pet peeve that Bliz thinks other forms of CC are cool, but forcing someone to change their target even for a moment would be an unacceptable loss of control of your character.

    Whut?

  8. #8
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    yeah, i've always wanted taunt to work in pvp, that'd be so awesome, to taunt a caster at the last second and absorb a spell or cc for your teammate. it adds depth to the fight but it's never been allowed, in fact they ended up taking away taunt from working on pets too i think?

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    Don't know but Fade actually works on pets. At least if they are just on aggressive/defensive and have not been told to especially hit you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belak View Post
    TAUNT leaps to mind!

    Sorry, it's a pet peeve that Bliz thinks other forms of CC are cool, but forcing someone to change their target even for a moment would be an unacceptable loss of control of your character.

    Whut?
    Oh ya, this one always pissed me off since FEIGN DEATH WORKS at least for making everything untarget you; doesn't show your hit bar as 0 hp or anything, that would be supremely broken.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caric View Post
    Is this finally the beginning of a better paradigm for tuning PVP separate from PVE? Please God let it be so.
    Not necessarily. You have to remember that armor is very different in PVP than PVE (boss armor values are not at all like players) so it was kinda already different.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    yeah, i've always wanted taunt to work in pvp, that'd be so awesome, to taunt a caster at the last second and absorb a spell or cc for your teammate. it adds depth to the fight but it's never been allowed, in fact they ended up taking away taunt from working on pets too i think?
    Exactly. I always found it annoying that a tank can't protect anyone in pvp. Yes, I know how to use Intervene, Shockwave, and Concussion Blow, but when a rogue is a better protector than a tank, something's wrong.

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    About time, to be honest.

    The whole 'oh but the tooltips will be so confusing!' argument has always been daft. There are so many coefficients, rules, and mechanics in this game that are hidden or obfuscated from players. It's not a big deal. The players who want to know find out and the rest of the players don't care.

    If it leads to better game balance, it's the right thing to do. Trying to constantly finangle classes around in a hopeless effort to balance PvE and PvP within the same mechanical structure simply leads to more frustration than any tooltip changes would possibly cause.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belak View Post
    Exactly. I always found it annoying that a tank can't protect anyone in pvp. Yes, I know how to use Intervene, Shockwave, and Concussion Blow, but when a rogue is a better protector than a tank, something's wrong.
    seriously, getting distracted is bullshit, getting feign death'd to lose target is bullshit, if those are legitimate "save yourself/teammate" cd's why isn't taunt viable? just give it a long pvp cd since they obviously have no problems with separating cc lengths in pvp for ages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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    I don't think taunt has any place in pvp. I don't think feign death does either. I think using feign death as an argument for why taunt should be allowed in pvp is fundamentally flawed. If tanks should be able to taunt players, make your argument solely on how adding that to the game would make pvp better. I think prot warriors have more than enough control tools at their disposal, other tank classes maybe not, very similar levels of control to a rogue (the class that lives and dies by control) and incredible survivability on top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reev View Post
    I saw that last night and I thought to myself, "Isn't this the very thing they said they didn't want to have happen?" That said, I don't think it's bad. 100% Colossus Smash is fun for PvE, and appar4ntly OP for PvP, so it's cool they can dial it back in PvP without killing PvE damage.
    Yes, You are right. I have similar opinion. I am working on it.

  17. #17
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    I really don't think taunt working on players would fun.

    Challenging shout on the other hand.....

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    I don't think taunt has any place in pvp. I don't think feign death does either. I think using feign death as an argument for why taunt should be allowed in pvp is fundamentally flawed. If tanks should be able to taunt players, make your argument solely on how adding that to the game would make pvp better. I think prot warriors have more than enough control tools at their disposal, other tank classes maybe not, very similar levels of control to a rogue (the class that lives and dies by control) and incredible survivability on top.
    The comparison to Feign Death was made because the Devs claim they don't want to allow Taunt in pvp because it changes your target.

    Feign Death also changes your target and is allowed. Thus the comparison.

    I think Taunt would be a fantastic and appropriate tool for pvp. As things stand right now, Tanks are the only main role that serve no purpose in pvp. Yes, prot warriors do well in pvp. But they do it as another control and distraction class, not as actual tanks. Why would it be so detrimental to allow me to force you to switch your target to me, even if all you had to do was switch back? Allow me to PROTECT someone to some extent.

    Part of me finds it pretty amusing, as well, that insulting Nefarion's mom draws his aggro but fails on a level 1 player.

  19. #19
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    Taunt cooldown is probably too short for it to be practical in PvP without being extremely annoying to other players. And yeah...Vigilence?
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  20. #20
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    Agreed. Cooldown in PVP would have to go up significantly. And Vigilence's refresh would have to be neutered as well. Make it 30 or 60 seconds. /shrug

    I'd still be thrilled.

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