Can I kite or tank the adds as a Prot or Fury warrior? If yes (I heard it is possible) how do I do this? Which spec is needed and what are the things I should do?
Just have a dps kite the adds. In our guild we have a hunter do it(he's the target for the pillar). We have also had success with a Frost DK kiting the adds. As soon as the adds pop you should be chaining stuns if you have them.
You shouldn't be traditionally tanking the adds at all as that will just increase the time it takes to kill them. Ramp up the aoe dps and make sure no one gets hit. Once you can convince your raid members to not tunnel vision dps you'll be fine.
I stand there and tank them. Rend, Thunderclap, cleave, pop the new cooldown that reduces cleave cd by 50% (cant ever remember the name of it), and smash on the mobs. They proc victory rush so once they start dying you can keep your health pretty sustained. I can usually have them all dead by the time magmaw smashes his head on the chains and last time I did 28K dps on the adds. Kiting just adds pain to the process. No reason to do so as a warrior.
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Klor, you guys don't have a problem with parasites spawning after they're basically killed? Since they're constantly jumping on you shouldn't they be basically continually disappearing and reappearing at full health?
@Klor
Have you swichted any talents out of the normal cookie cutter spec perhaps speeced into impending victory? It is obvious that you have blood and thunder but do you have also thunderstruck? And more importantly, are you in ubergear or quite normal compared to the mass.
My gear is iLvL 355.
12.5% dodge,
15% parry,
50% block.
Is that sufficient?
What about worms infecting me and popping out, do the have to be nuked at the end of phase 1?
Last edited by Drasnal; 02-12-2011 at 01:20 AM. Reason: Forgot something
Ad 1. Thanks for the advice, but we do not have a DK in our 10 men raid therefore it is not an option. Our hunter has decent problems kiting the worms. That is why I said I could try it because anyway as 2nd tank I am useless and the hunters damage is superior by 3-4k dps to mine as a fury.Originally Posted by Wars
(1)Just have a dps kite the adds. In our guild we have a hunter do it(he's the target for the pillar). We have also had success with a Frost DK kiting the adds. As soon as the adds pop you should be chaining stuns if you have them.
(2)You shouldn't be traditionally tanking the adds at all as that will just increase the time it takes to kill them. Ramp up the aoe dps and make sure no one gets hit. Once you can convince your raid members to not tunnel vision dps you'll be fine.
Ad 2. Klor says differently. Is it a matter of gear? Or using cooldowns in the beginning ro be able to survive until victory rush lights up the first time?
I'm tanking them, too. It's quite easy and healers don't have any problems to heal me or anything. I don't have to use CDs at the beginning, normally. Well sure, I'm using Shockwave and SB, both reducing incoming dmg. But I normally don't have to pop LS or SW. Sometimes I have to use one when there is a new Wave of littel wormes just before the tank get's eaten and healers have to focus on him, or when they have to switch sides because of this floor covering ability. However I use them freely when I feel the need for them.
How we do it:
Everybody but me stands in melee range. I'm the only one standing in the middle of the room. I'll get the fontain and little worms will spawn right before me, when I step out of it. While everybody is happy with the big one, I take all the little ones. I ignore their target, they ignore mine
My spec:
I'm speced into B&T and Thunderstruck. I've the TC glyph but probably most do. It's quite helpfull here. Vigilance is on the MT. The option to have taunt up all the time is also quite good. Sometimes healers land a big heal when one or more worms just spawn, they easily get initial aggro.
Opening up on first wave:
After the first worms are there I use TC followed by Shockwave. This is the hardest moment for me, because they don't arive together and I don't have Rend up. but I've done it a few times by now, and know where to stand and when it's the right moment to open up. (Don't use your first TC too early, it should catch most of the worms.) First thing to do after Shockwave is Rend on any worm. (In best case that's one I did not catch until then.) Next GCD is used to hit a worm that want's to run of. Don't be shy to use a taunt on them. Maybe you even have to use AoE taunt for the first few tries, but it will get easier for the next waves of worms. I also reposition myself, so that the next TC will cover as much worms as possible and especially those I did not get before. Rend should be running on most of them by now. And I have the attention of all of them. If there is still a worm I can again taunt it back. Until the first worm dies it's normal AoE rotation from here. As soon as worm's die Victory Rush is used as often as possible between TC and Shockwave. It's important to not use Shockwave on CD. It should be up for every new wave of worms. (And it will be up with a full Thunderstruck stack every time after the first one.)
I keep parasites:
I never run out of worms, because I catch the parasites quite early and will be affected by them during the whole encounter. Well there were some tries/kills where I got rid of them sometimes around when the head was down, but I don't think it's a good thing. That's because if one doesnt kill all worms until the next wave, one already has rend up and it will be applied to all new worms with the first TC (even to ones in the air). And one definitly will have some Thunderstruck and Vengeance stacks up. Also chances are quite good to have Victory Rush when needed the most. On the other hand, it does not hurt me much to have some of them. I kill them easily at the rate they are spawning and can use Victory Rush the whole time. Since parasites always spawn a new worm, one should not get lazy, worms will easily stroll towards the healers.
Some other tips:
- I start with everybody else hitting at the boss, helping with debuffing and getting rage. I run to my position with full rage, about 6s before the first spot will be marked.
- I tell my mages to have a frost circle ready to put beside the group when I shout that I need it. Sometimes just one get's away... However they often place it by their own, when they see one heading to them. In most cases it's not needed, because I have already solved the situation with a taunt. But it's a good backup. Frost trap (the one with the slow effect) would be even better, but we don't have a hunter in our setup.
- I stand in the middle so that it's only one step right or left when the floor is coverd. However it should be far away from the group but in healer range.
All in all I think it's probably a harder job than to MT the boss. But it's quite rewarding. I'm first or second on dmg done for this encounter. Kiting them would be much harder at least for a prot warrior. It's hard to get good threat on them while not beeing in melee range a lot. Healer threat is quite high sometimes. We never tried to AoE-DPS the worms down with our raid setup. (We are more or less coming from 3 different earlier raids.) But we had problems to get them down at all in my old raid and started the warrior-tank thing back then, since the dk-kiting was no option - we don't have a dk. Aoe dmg probably would be enough with our current setup. But as soon as I showed them the warrior-tanking strategy everybody loved it. If the warrior knows what to do it's safer and nobody has to switch attention between different targets or burning resources for AoE. And nobody can screw it up because of standing in the fire or whatever.
It's in 10man, never did 25man.
Last edited by Katzazi; 02-12-2011 at 03:59 AM.
Wow! That is one good reply!!! Many thanks I will try it like this next raid.
I also tank the worms, very similliar to Katazi, only difference is that all my range and some healers stand at range just to minimise the magma spit splash damage, it makes picking up newly spawned worms harder to pick up, but gives the healers a slightly easier time.
Especially for a new group this statement can't be true. You take roughly 8/10/13k dps from those parasites while tanking them, depending on 10s or 25s. That's almost always as much love as the main tank needs.
Damage done on adds that some lineups doesn't have to kill and other kill quick and clean with some aoe. It's rewarding for ourselves self esteem but that's more or less about it.
We have range moving from A to B spot due to some slackers still can't stay in melee range when they are told to
Well I've also done the same strategy as a healer but with a paladin as worms tank. The two other healers were assigned to the MT. I assume the worms-paladin had a beacon. But it was not hard to heal him together with the raid. Well I did not check, how much healing he got from the other healers, but nobody else was assigned to him.
My healthbar is quite stable when I do the worms-tanking. I didn't say, that I did not get any healing. As I said beacon is on me, that's about 50% of the healing the paladin does to the MT when I remember right. And the paladin is probably spamming on the MT quite nicely. And then there is Victory Rush. I looked at the healing I got at WoL for this encounter. Victory Rush is the ability below Beacon there. Everything else is more or less raid healing (third one is actually Vampirc Embrace from shadow priest, followed by renew(6%) so no GH spam or anything like that). And when I look at incoming dmg I don't get so much higher dmg spikes than normal raid members. Those two things (Beacon and Victory Rush) should be able to cover that. Don't underestimate Victory Rush. Beacon covers 50% of my incoming heals, my selfheals 20%. So only 30% of the healing I get there is anything cast by a healer. Well and at least some of the Beacon healing is probably overhealing, since I don't get much dmg for most of the time (only 2 parasites present). The first direct heal is Healing Wave with 1.9% (I got 2 of them during the whole encounter). That does not look like a healing target that needs heavy attention by the healers.
Sure you don't get those numbers as a tank when stuff is burned down by the dps classes. However, not every raid setup can either afford to kill them or are able to actually kill them.Damage done on adds that some lineups doesn't have to kill and other kill quick and clean with some aoe. It's rewarding for ourselves self esteem but that's more or less about it.
We have range moving from A to B spot due to some slackers still can't stay in melee range when they are told to
It does not need such a high amount of coordination the moving from A to B strategy needs. At least for new groups that's quite less to think about and to do. Yes, the tank who tanks the worms has to do it right, but she does not have to pay attention to anything else (like burning down the boss at the right moment or healing everybody up). At least for the groups I was there (and that were quite different ones) it's much easier for most people to meet at one spot and stay there than to meet at two different spots multiple times and running out of them at the right moment (with everybody else). If you have slackers for melee range, you probably have ones with the A->b strategy as well.
However, I don't want to advertise this. It works for our group in 10man on normal mode. Other raids don't need it or have better options. There is more than one way to do this. You just have to find the one working for you. The only thing I want to say is that it's less stress on the healers than one would think without trying it. (I will not link any logs here, if anybody is in need of one, send me a PM.)
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