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Thread: Rotation and tips for Prot Pally

  1. #1
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    Rotation and tips for Prot Pally

    Hi everyone,
    Iím a prot pally using SoI most of the time. Yesterday I had a rough time on agro against the DPS of my grp. Basically, I get reached in no times by the top 2DPS and I donít know why. I must be doing something wrong with my rotation or something else. After raid yesterday I changed a couple of glyph and my specs to focus more on single target instead of AoE pull (that helped a lot of what I saw in a Heroics afterwards). But still my GM is telling me I should be using SoT instead of SoI but I get oom so quickly when using SoT that my treat isnít building at all. I would like to know if there is a rotation I should do? Right now Iím just throwing out anything that is available to build as much dps/threat possible. With my PP Iím certainly using WoG to help healer a little. If any of you have suggestions on build and rotation you can check out my profile on armory.

    Alamut/Gorefiend (US)/ oxyd

    I know thereís still a couple of piece I need to get so donít be rude on the gear, just check glyph, talent tree give me your opinion.

    Thanks!

    P.S. Sorry for the grammar and spelling mistakes Iím French Canadian! ^^

  2. #2
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    Use SoT/SotR for a decent aggro lead and don't bother with using consecration during this time. If the lead is big enough just swap to SoI + WoG spam to help smooth out damage.

  3. #3
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    Re: Rotation and tips for Prot Pally

    I've said it before and I'll say it again... It wasn't too long ago that DPS was supposed to watch omen and manage their threat. Since the huge jump in DPS, everybody wants to top the Recount DPS list and then they blame the tank when he can't hold agro. As a tank, I call shenanigans!

    You need to use SoT a bit and ask your healer if it makes you too hard to heal. If it does, tell your DPS to back off or you all will wipe more often. For mana, put judgement higher in your priority list. That's where most of your regen comes from anyway.

    This may all be moot with the HoPo nerf/"bugfix" anyway tho. If it turns out we need to drop avoidance/mastery just so we can get reliable CS/HotR hits, we will have to be in SoI just to stay alive. In that case, however, the reduced misses will help threat too.

    It's going to be a tightrope walk, but first we just need to find the rope!

  4. #4
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    Rotation and tips for Prot Pally

    I never use SoI and I do not oom or have healer complaints. I believe the trick is three parts:

    Consecration is not the threat god people seemed to assume it was. I rarely use it and have no threat problems. It is not good enough from a threat per mana view for me to use more than occassionally. If my mana is full AND I have at least three mobs up AND everything else is in cd, then I might use it.

    Judge more. When Grand Crusader decides to proc every other strike on a pull, it is tempting to keep using it. Nothing says you need to. Don't ignore judgement just because there is more than one mob.

    Work your first few GCDs on your primary target and your AoE rotation. After that, start tab targeting your strikes. This helps make consecration unnecessary in most of the situations you used to feel it was.

    Also, make sure your rotation is correct. Crusader strike every other ability to maximize your WoG use and fill in between with whatever is off cd, while not skipping too many judgements.
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  5. #5
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    Good advice above. I just want to add that nothing will make up for DPS hauling off and nuking any random mob in the pull, which 75% of them still seem dead set on doing. If you don't feel like you're at a place where you can chain pull and AoE zerg Wrath-style, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. You're the tank, you set the pace, and if that means that you want to mark 1st and 2nd kill, and mobs you want to see CC'd by respective members, have at it. If people feel like griping and complaining, let them, or let them leave and sit in queue if they want. Its no skin off your back. You do whatever it takes to make the run as smooth as possible.

    For there record, I always run with Seal of Insight up, and a WoG-first / threat-second build, just because you never know what kind of healer you're going to get, and I love being able to heal myself through almost any heroic boss encounter if I have to. All these things considered, no one ever pulls threat off a mob that I am focusing. Really the only time I lose mobs is when a DPS'er (DK usually, it seems) decides to just go balls out, irrespective of what I am targeting. A quick taunt and SotR takes care of that.

  6. #6
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    Here is a list of 10 concepts that I follow while tanking on my paladin. This is not me telling you what to door what you NEED to do, but more of an explanation of how I play and what has worked for me. So take this with a grain of salt. I hope it helps.


    1. Avenger's Shield - Probably one of our biggest threat builders and since we now have rebuke as our main interrupt we can use this all the time. Just be wary around CC'd targets.

    2. Divine Plea - Instant 3 Holy Power + Shield of the Righteous = Amazing threat

    3. Inquisition - At 3 Holy Power this is 30% extra Holy damge for 12 seconds. NOTE: Only use your 3 Holy Power on this when there's more than 3-4 mobs to maximize it's effectiveness. You could even use this at 1 or 2 Holy Power just as a quick step to threat. It mirrors how some rogues used to use a 3 combo point Slice and Dice to get their rotation going.

    4. Consecration/Holy Wrath - Alone these are very nice threat builders, but combine with a Divine Plea and Inquisition and you'll not only see your threat go up, but your DPS will skyrocket.

    5. Shield of the Righteous vs. Word of Glory - SotR is a huge threat builder. Personally I rarely ever use WoG, but depending on your build you may use it more. I would just not use it until I went through 2-3 SotR first just to be sure I have a threat lead.

    6. Seal of Truth - This seal puts a DOT on anything you smack so if you were one of them tanks that tab-targeted smacking every target once at least puts that DoT on them. Coupled with the glyph (10 expertise or 300 expertise rating) ALL your hits now have an increased chance of not being dodged or parried

    7. Judgment - If you use this everything it's off cooldown you'll always have the Judgments of the Wise buff which returns 30% of your mana to you over 10 seconds.

    8. Righteous Defense - This is your new best friend when it comes to tanking. I do not know if you are familiar with writing macros or use addons, but make a keybind for this spell and learn to use this well. Personally I use the addon Clique and bound this spell to my right mouse button so that when I hover over my raid frames and right click, all the threat on that party member comes back my way. Much easier than dropping your target and targeting your raid member then casting this.

    9. Hand of Salvation - Otherthan Hand of Reckoning and Righteous Defense, this is another invaluable tool. Unglyphed it's a threat over time removal, but glyphed acts as a second Righteous Defense since you are more than likely the next player on the mobs threat meter. Again I use this with Clique as another mouse over and click function.

    10. Macros and Keybinds - You should really get used to making macros and keybinds since a lot of our job takes quick manipulation. It may seem silly to a lot but I use cast sequence macros for my basic rotation to save space on my action bar.

    For example: /castsequence reset=target Judgment, Crusader Strike, Crusader Strike

    Again this may seem silly, but it saves one space on my action bar as well as one less thing I have to think about when in combat. Now all I have to do is push another keybind when both of those spells are on cooldown.

  7. #7
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    As others have said, use SoT (at least early on), don't consecrate much and judge often.

    To front load threat, the best opening sequence is:

    Divine Plea => Inquisition => Avenging Wrath => Exorcism => Judgement => Avenger Shield

    But it sounds from the first post that you do not know the optimal paladin rotation after the pull. It is:

    CS-X-CS-X-CS-ShoTR

    and repeat

    where X is a filler from J, AS, HW and consecration.

    Typically it would be:

    CS-J-CS-AS (or HW)-CS-ShotR

    For AOE, use HotR instead of CS and inquisition instead of ShotR. Where you need extra healing and threat is not an issue, use WoG rather than ShotR.

    You can read more about it on maintankadin.com, but the key thing is to prioritise generating holy power generators and only use finishers when you have 3 HoPo.
    Last edited by theodisius; 02-19-2011 at 04:53 PM. Reason: typo with silly extra X

  8. #8
    First off for threat matters = Seal of Truth. Only use SoL ONLY if you've gained a safe threat lead on your dps to help your healers. Second off, you should link you profile to give us a look at your toon for any possible issues.

    I call this the following my single target Threat Blast combo...

    Divine Plea, Avenging Wrath, Avenger's Shield, Judge, Crusador Strike, and lasty Consecration.

    With this order in my book by the time you do all of that, you'll have your avengers shield, crusador strike and judge all up again with others on CD - and use that darn avenging wrath every time it's up.

  9. #9
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    Two quick tips:
    1) I took Consecration off my bars about six weeks ago and haven't missed it. The threat you get from using SoT, and the extra expertise that you glyphed for when using it, will more than make up for the loss.
    2) Reforge the Parry on your gear into Mastery. Sanctuary gives you mana back from blocking and Reckoning procs extra attacks from blocking.
    How does a PC gamer change a light bulb? He doesn't. He goes on the forums and QQs about it being dark.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladesong View Post
    Two quick tips:
    1) I took Consecration off my bars about six weeks ago and haven't missed it. The threat you get from using SoT, and the extra expertise that you glyphed for when using it, will more than make up for the loss.
    2) Reforge the Parry on your gear into Mastery. Sanctuary gives you mana back from blocking and Reckoning procs extra attacks from blocking.
    Not using Consecration is like a DK not using Death and Decay, you just do not do that. Consecration should always be used as a filler no matter what. If you just want to barely hold threat at the expense of saving some mana then go for it, but this is a huge liability especially if the paladin is under hit and/or expertise cap. Look at it like this. Can you manage without it? Sure. But Consecration is the icing on the cake when it comes to threat. Combined with Inquistion and Hallowed Ground (if you want to waste talent points for this) and now Consecration hits for a nice amount of constant damage in AoE tanking. I'd have to say that any paladin tank with mana issues is either not using their spells accordingly or does not have their talent points itemized correctly.

    As far as reforging parry into mastery? Reforging Parry for mastery is a last option for paladins. Our two best avoidance stats are Parry and Mastery up until you reach the unhittable cap. Dodge is more suitable for reforging before parry since dodge is mostly for Deathknights and not paladins. And when it comes to reforging you should always be reforging to meet the hit and expertise caps then mastery. Save your gem slots and enchants for mastery.

  11. #11
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    Why is dodge not so good for us? the mana regen from sanctuary does not procc from parries, only from blocks and dodges and parry has no inherant advantage over dodge. They both function in exactly the same way and have exactly the same DR equation.

    Also, mastery is the best stat that you can reforge to. I have left a bit of hit and expertise on my gear to stabilise my HoPo generation, but even so, if an item has no mastery on it, you should be reforging so that it does. If you end up reforging parry or dodge to mastery, so be it.

    Cons costs over half our mana pool. You cannot afford to use it more than once every minute or so or else you risk running low, and there are other spells which are more useful such as divine radiance (which probably generates more threat due to the healing it does as well as healing your party/raid.

  12. #12
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    I don't know where to start with the misinformation in this thread ("parry is more for DKs"? Seriously?) but I want to address this clanger at least:

    Quote Originally Posted by theodisius View Post
    But it sounds from the first post that you do not know the optimal paladin rotation after the pull. It is:

    CS-X-CS-X-CS-X-ShoTR

    and repeat

    where X is a filler from J, AS, HW and consecration.

    Typically it would be:

    CS-J-CS-AS-CS-HW-ShotR
    That is not the optimal rotation. It is CS-X-CS-X-CS-ShotR. Not -CS-X-ShotR. Doing what's written above pushes back ShotR for the sake of a lower threat ability and has you sitting on CS for 1.5s after it's on cooldown. Not good.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by theodisius View Post
    But it sounds from the first post that you do not know the optimal paladin rotation after the pull. It is:

    CS-X-CS-X-CS-X-ShoTR

    and repeat

    where X is a filler from J, AS, HW and consecration.

    Typically it would be:

    CS-J-CS-AS-CS-HW-ShotR
    Let me fix that rotation:
    CS-J-CS-AS-CS-ShotR
    CS-J-CS-HW-CS-ShotR

    This would be the standard, assuming no CS misses. It WAS the standard, and ran like clockwork, before the HP "bugfix" nerf. At this point, I've reintroduced consecration to bosses, on the occasions were everything else is on CD and I'm not at 3 HP.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mech View Post
    As far as reforging parry into mastery? Reforging Parry for mastery is a last option for paladins. Our two best avoidance stats are Parry and Mastery up until you reach the unhittable cap. Dodge is more suitable for reforging before parry since dodge is mostly for Deathknights and not paladins. And when it comes to reforging you should always be reforging to meet the hit and expertise caps then mastery. Save your gem slots and enchants for mastery.
    The math done by the serious theory crafters on maintankadin suggest keeping your parry 1% higher than your dodge.

    And one should never be reforging, gemming, or enchanting for hit or expertise.

  14. #14
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    If you just want to barely hold threat at the expense of saving some mana then go for it, but this is a huge liability especially if the paladin is under hit and/or expertise cap.
    So, two things here. First, thanks to vengeance, tank threat is so far ahead of the dps that on a tank and spank fight a paladin can use WoG instead of their hardest hitting ability SotR and they can use SoI instead of SoT. Consecrate isn't the icing, it's the sprinkles - completely superfluous Second, the OP specifically stated that he was forced into using SoI because he was running out of mana. Consecrate eats up a huge chunk of mana for a minor increase in threat. Conversely, the OP could stop using Consecrate and then go back to using SoT, giving him/her a big jump in threat.

    As far as reforging parry into mastery? Reforging Parry for mastery is a last option for paladins. Our two best avoidance stats are Parry and Mastery up until you reach the unhittable cap. Dodge is more suitable for reforging before parry since dodge is mostly for Deathknights and not paladins. And when it comes to reforging you should always be reforging to meet the hit and expertise caps then mastery. Save your gem slots and enchants for mastery.
    Out of curiosity, where are you getting your information? What you have written has some some and some Others have already pointed out the specific errors.
    How does a PC gamer change a light bulb? He doesn't. He goes on the forums and QQs about it being dark.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumines View Post
    It is CS-X-CS-X-CS-ShotR. Not -CS-X-ShotR.
    Yeah, my bad - that was a typo. Of course, I don't sit around with 3 holy power.

  16. #16
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    Might add to use Hand of Salvation for someone who keeps pulling threat. Most common flaw in most pallies today is they have no clue when to use their hands (bar protection).

  17. #17
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    Lol, hit yur dps with a Bop (hand of protection) they will get the message...lmfao

  18. #18
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    before 4.06 i used SoI very rarely now never i believe the +10 expertise from glyphed SoT is close enough for selfheal (asuming you WoG with your holy power of course)
    if you use SoI for mana return then your doing something wrong - probably using too much cons.
    i personally removed cons from my bars since untalented (and why would you talent it) it eats into your ability to use holy radiance.

  19. #19
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    Most of these guys have pretty correct, with a couple I don't agree with. Just before the pull set off Divine Plea (free 3 HoPo) and pull with Avenger's Shield. As soon as the boss is in melee, punch it in the face with Shield of the Righteous then start your regular 'rotation' priority order. Crusader Strike, Judgement, CS, Avenger's Shield/Holy Wrath, CS, SotR. Once Vengence kicks in you'll be hitting harder and your threat levels should be beyond your highest DPSers, making Word of Glory a better use of you 3 HoPo to help out on heals and survivability. Judgement will help you with your mana regen (I've never had a problem personally while using SoTruth unless hammering it out on training dummies with no raid mechanics to move around with). Avenger's Shield has a higher priority than Holy Wrath, but sometimes it just doesn't proc for you to be using it again 12 seconds later (I'm only talented 1/2 Grand Crusader).

    A big thing I did in my guild is set up a thread in my guild forums to state to the DPS "I am not hit capped, I may miss on the pull. Do not go all out for about 6 seconds once the boss is in place" type thing. You can tell them that with the current tier/gear it's hard to be hit/exp capped and survive because of healer mana and you would rather avoid/mitigate damage over stronger DPS (as what tanks are built for).

    As far as Consecration, I also took it off my bars/rotation and unglyphed it. It sucks at times in Heroic pulls, but hopefully you have CCs out and you have Hammer of Righteousness and Holy Wrath to gather everything while marking priority mobs. Consecration is a mana drain and isn't that much of a DPS boost to be worth it for me. But, that's a play style one would have to get used to.

    I think this thread got into reforging/gemming, so my quick two cents: My remaining blues I put (in order) haste>crit>parry>dodge>mastery into hit to help out. As for my 359s, I've reforged (if possible) parry to mastery or parry to dodge, but left my dodge and mastery pieces alone. I've been lucky enough to recieve pieces with expertise and hit to help those stats, but am currently working on my avoidance rating. As for gems (I've switched 3 times) but currently parry/stam for reds, mastery/stam for blues, straight mastery for yellows and pure stamina for prismatic. Others may disagree with my choices, but another of the personal play style options that can be adjusted.

    My only authority behind my tips that may help is being 8/12 as a main tank in a 25-man semi-hardcore/casual progression guild. Hope this helps \o/

    Arjac|Cenarius(US)

  20. #20
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    This threat thread is pretty handy.. Seems like Consecreate should be in there at leaast within buttons reach.. I do use Cons but you have to be oh so careful to follow with judgement.

    Link Paladin Threat Values "Cata"
    http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...28Cataclysm%29

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