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Thread: patch 4.0.6 warriors

  1. #21
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    Is thunderstruck really a good use of points? It seems to be limited to a few lower priority or longer CD abilities?
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brage View Post
    I'm personally gonna roll with http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LG0cZ0bZIdGzRRodbu.
    I rarely find a use for Gagorder and having 3/3 shield specialization hasn't been a dire need for me.

    For the time being i'm running with a similar build except i have Bloodcraze+Piercing Howl+2/3War Academy instead of Deepwounds, and allthough i will miss PH on Nefarian (i'm the add tank in phase 3) i'm sure i can get by just fine.
    I find gag order a great utility tool. The silence helps on caster pulls, it's handy as a sorta-interrupt, etc. Sure, it's mainly a trash talent but the added cooldown reduction is handy in terms of single-target stuff too.

  3. #23
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    I've been playing the last fortnight or so without gag order and to be honest I'm not missing it. Thinking about it, there are only two instances (BRC and VP) where I would use the silencing that comes with the points. However, I am able to just as easily LoS the targets.

    On the subject of Devastate vs Imp. Revenge. My problem is that by not using revenge I may as well only have 2 prime glyphs slots - SS & Dev fill two and rev (uselessly) filling the last.

    I'll prob end up running two specs, one for aoe with piercing howl and imp revenge and another with impending victory and 3/3 deep wounds.
    The best way out is always through!
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  4. #24
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    For Raids

    Personally for Raids this is what I run:

    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LG0cZ0bZIcGzRRRzbu

    In raids I have no need for B&T, Gag Order, Safeguard, and I just switched out Thunderstruck for Impending Victory(Very nice heal, over extra DPS thats not needed).

    This build gives me ALL I need for Boss tanking and honestly I run this spec for 5-mans and I do not seem to miss all the AoE stuff. My offspec(I don't DPS) is the same BUT I use Thunderstruck for the little added DPS over Impending Victory BUT thats the only changes.

  5. #25
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    Well I only have one tank spec. I need to have a dps-spec because there are 1 tank encounters and my co-tank has a heal spec and no other gear, anyway.

    There is no way, I would drop T&B and Thunderstruck out of my raid spec. That's because there are all this multi-mob encounters, where stuff has to die quite fast (or at least one has to have tight threat on them). Warriors are very good there. It's one of our strengthes at the moment. So I definitly skill for it. Sure the single target tps and dps may be a little bit lower, but tps is high enough and nobody complains about the dps, anyway.

    The combination of T&B and Thunderstruck is much more usefull for all this multi-mob stuff than Deep Wounds. It's not about numbers, it's about control. With T&B I can controll that al mobs get a dot. And with Thunderstruck I can control a quite big initial hit on all of them.

  6. #26
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    @Katzazi
    Where do you need that huge initial hit? Even on Maloriak HC (Dark Phase), Nefarian or Al Akir aggro snap is good enough thanks to BnT's initial rend tick on application. And i really don't want to stun the adds on neither of those encounters right at the beginning due to mechanics/positioning. I prefer a talent that helps me on every encounter.

    @Bana
    Instead of IV i went with BnT, it's my allrounder specc.

  7. #27
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    And now I miss the old Inner Rage... because it was "Passive" for me before. Not that I think it should be a macro intensive mechanic, I just wish they had come up with a passive solution

    Pre-4.06

  8. #28
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    How do you mean it was passive for you before?

  9. #29
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    Passive as in: most of warrior tanks had lots of rage and you were able to keep Inner Rage buff up a lot (90% on some fights). Now that's gone. Not the end of the world, but it was a nice thing.

  10. #30
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    Weird. I find myself using it more now. I think there's something psychologically demotivating about the old model. "Click this button to make yourself waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more expensive for a teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeensy bit of extra damage."

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistersix View Post
    How do you mean it was passive for you before?
    I had it macro'd into revenge, and then cancelaura macro'd into devastate. Statistically ~50% of shield slams are free anyways.

    *shrugs*
    I've macro'd it into shield block now.

  12. #32
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    I had it macroed into SS, Rev and Dev, cancels in SHouts, Shield bash and spell reflect. "way more expensive" is a relative term, And on most fights 50% extra cost was not something that broke the bank.

    What was nice about the setup was that you could rage starve yourself, cancel IR, and start up again without droppingn a beat.

  13. #33
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    Well, it makes sense to redesign an ability that is so awkward that Warriors have to make a ton of extra macros just to exploit funny buff-canceling behavior.

    (Not that I think the current version is all that great either.)
    Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!

  14. #34
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    It's not great but it's easier to manually control and spam if you so choose at the same time. If you need to start revving up on rage again you just stop casting HS (which you'd do anyway) and you can macro it to something like shield block which has a similar cooldown timer.

  15. #35
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    I don't find it easier, before it was a case of bar goes blue tap the shout keybind till something else lights up. as it cancelled old IR for me something always lit up.

    I still do this. if i need rage my instinct is to shout


    what i have to do now is track HS, and spam HS, in addition to tracking rage and using BS/CS for rage.

    new IR even with macroing it into SB is more complicated to use, and requires me to press HS so much more.

    I'd glyph to go back to old IR.

  16. #36
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    Both versions of Inner Rage are bad for different reasons. The previous version was a mechanical nightmare. Most casual players had zero idea how to use it without it totally screwing them over. Having to make tons of macros just to control it as a passive increase to certain abilities was kinda a broken and silly concept.

    However, the current version is poor in regard to having to manage Heroic Strike on a 1.5s cooldown off the GCD. Having to spam two buttons every GCD is a bit crazy. When Heroic Strike is up it effectively bypasses the long-standing "1.0s rule" in regard to maximum actions per second, and spikes down to 0.75s with 2 abilities every 1.5s. I'm really not sure this is a good thing for a class who has a resource that is not time-based. (At least the 1.0s GCDs on Energy classes are limited by a set energy gain per second and often become energy-capped more than GCD-capped.)

    The new Inner Rage makes me wonder how the current system is at all better than the on-next-swing mechanic of Heroic Strike pre-Cataclysm.
    Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojiyama View Post
    The new Inner Rage makes me wonder how the current system is at all better than the on-next-swing mechanic of Heroic Strike pre-Cataclysm.
    The only justification that I see coming through now is that "when you push a button, something happens." But that was originally implemented for level 1 warriors starting with heroic strike (which they don't have until level 16 now).

  18. #38
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    One point in which the redesigned Inner Rage overtakes the old version, is the option to "prime" it sort of speak.
    With the old IR you had to have a vast ammount rage inorder to use it, simply because it increased the rage cost of _every_ skill we used. With the new design, you can activate it when you got a feeling that alot of rage will be comming your way, without hurting your rage expenses. If that rage didn't come - avoidance streak, phase transitions etc. - you didn't lose anything.

    I find myself using it alot on various encounters now, simply because it doesn't come with any negative impacts anymore.

  19. #39
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    As Prot the old one didn't have negative side either. Avoidance streaks are no where near as prevalent since we have about half as much avoidance, and since we have maybe triple the block, and earn triple the rage from blocking as we used to, Rage once combat is begun tend to be a non issue. I'm spending alot more time Rage capped and HSing more often, and pulling less TPS. I'd rather go back to wrath mechanics than this.

    I don't get why Blizzard doesn't either give us prot talent or a glyph to make IR work like it used too.

  20. #40
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    The full rage bar problem got even bigger with the latest patch for me. For infinite rage situations I could stay inside of IR as long as I wanted to and could burn additional rage all the time.

    A normal 6s-rotation with 2 HS costs 20+5+15+15+30+30 = 115. 115*1.5= 192.5. (Ok one does not do a normal rotation all the time, but other ability costs are in a comparable range). Now one has 20+5+15+15+(4*30)=175. So even while IR is up, one can burn less rage with it, and more rage is probably wasted. (I've got over 100 rage with IR up and HS on GCD this week multiple times even on normal modes in 10man.)

    But the new IR can only be up half of the time. You cannot chain-cast it. So if you get big hits over a long time (as tanking a boss for 15m), half the time you don't have access to any additional burning. There WILL be rage lost during this time in this cases.

    So if we cannot use it half of the time AND it brings back the one thing blizz definitly wanted to change for prot warriors for the other half, I don't see any of blizz design ideas met for IR. It is not a valid tool for rage burning when the warrior get's a lucky streak and it contradicts the no-HS-spam-anymore-idea.

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