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Thread: patch 4.0.6 warriors

  1. #1
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    patch 4.0.6 warriors

    Warrior (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
    • Charge now shares diminishing returns with stun effects.
    • Cleave damage has been reduced by 20%.
    • Hamstring now has a PvP duration of 8 seconds.
    • Heroic Strike damage has been reduced by 20%.
    • Inner Rage has been redesigned. It now reduces the cooldown on Heroic Strike and Cleave by 50% (to 1.5 second) for the next 15 seconds. 1-minute cooldown. It still cannot be used during Deadly Calm. This ability was originally designed to help warriors with rage capping, but the Heroic Strike and rage normalization changes seem to have solved that problem on their own. This new design will still allow warriors to burn off excess rage faster, at their discretion.
    • Recklessness now increases special critical strike chance by 50%, down from 100%, but lasts the full 12 seconds instead of allowing only 3 charges.
    • Slam weapon damage percent (at level 80+) has been increased from 125% to 145%.

    Talent Specializations
    Arms
    • Drums of War no longer lowers the rage cost of Piercing Howl.
    • Juggernaut no longer increases the cooldown on Charge, but instead increases the duration of the Charge stun by 2 seconds. In addition, Charge is usable in all stances, however, the talent now causes Charge and Intercept to share a cooldown.
    • Lambs to the Slaughter: Instead of granting 10/20/30% damage to the next Mortal Strike, Overpower, or Execute, it now grants a 10% buff to any Mortal Strike, Overpower, Slam, or Execute that stacks 1/2/3 times.
    • Mortal Strike cost has been reduced by 5 rage.
    • War Academy no longer buffs Heroic Strike or Cleave. It now buffs Mortal Strike, Raging Blow, Devastate, Victory Rush and Slam.

    Fury
    • In addition to its current effects, Bloodsurge now also causes the next Slam to deal 20% more damage.
    • Bloodthirst damage has been increased by approximately 30%.
    • Raging Blow weapon damage percent (at level 80+) has been increased from 110% to 120%.
    • Single-Minded Fury bonus has been increased to 20%, up from 15%.
    • Unshackled Fury (Mastery) now grants 5.6% benefit per mastery point, up from 4.7%.

    Protection
    • Charge’s stun continues to not trigger diminishing returns for Protection warriors who have the Warbringer talent.

    Glyphs
    • Glyph of Rapid Charge has been changed from a 7% reduction to Charge's cooldown, to 1 second off of the cooldown. This change is primarily to clarify the exact cooldown reduction this glyph provides.

    Warrior Bug Fixes
    • Warrior abilities which were incorrectly assigned the sound effect for Mangle have been updated.
    • Battle Shout's buff tooltip should not show incorrect values when the recipient is higher level than the warrior.
    • Heroic Leap and Thunder Clap no longer incorrectly scale damage with both Strength and Agility.
    • Forceful Deflection passive aura is now properly applying to warriors beginning at level 1.
    • The Victorious buff can no longer proc before the warrior learns Victory Rush.
    • The wording in the tooltip for Vigilance was inconsistent with other abilities and has been updated.
    Did they role back the buff (and comparative nerf to revenge) to devastate that was planned initially?

  2. #2
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    No, it's in there. Look at the Arms tree a bit. Also, Revenge never got a nerf. The debate was if we wanted to drop improved revenge to pick up more damage elsewhere and it resulted in a net loss in dps. Revenge is still better, just not by a lot.

  3. #3
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    Yeah, basically it's that with the buff to Devastate through War Academy, that the net gain of Imp Revenge vs. Deep Wounds or Cruelty is very close and thus Revenge is not really in a great position right now. It's still better most of the time--but just barely.
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  4. #4
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    These are hidden in their respective druid/rogue sections. I'm not sure why they didn't nerf free shouts rather than this rubbish.
    Prowl is no longer broken by enemies using Demoralizing Shout or Demoralizing Roar.
    Stealth is no longer broken by enemies using Demoralizing Shout or Demoralizing Roar.

  5. #5
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    And yeah, for numbers.. what I'm seeing in the average geared tank is that with War Academy, the difference between 2/2 Improved Revenge + Revenge rotations and no Improved Revenge + dropping Revenge is only about 200 DPS.

    (To contrast, each point in Deep Wounds is nearly 200 DPS on its own. So, basically, if you have 33+ points in Protection but don't have Deep Wounds and have 2/2 Improved Revenge, you would gain more DPS by swapping 2 points from Improved Revenge to Deep Wounds and dropping Revenge. Of course, in a max TPS spec you could try to get both.)
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojiyama View Post
    And yeah, for numbers.. what I'm seeing in the average geared tank is that with War Academy, the difference between 2/2 Improved Revenge + Revenge rotations and no Improved Revenge + dropping Revenge is only about 200 DPS.

    (To contrast, each point in Deep Wounds is nearly 200 DPS on its own. So, basically, if you have 33+ points in Protection but don't have Deep Wounds and have 2/2 Improved Revenge, you would gain more DPS by swapping 2 points from Improved Revenge to Deep Wounds and dropping Revenge. Of course, in a max TPS spec you could try to get both.)
    And what are you getting if you drop BnT for improved revenge? Is it worth dropping rend from the cycle given the new devastate?
    Think: http://wowtal.com/#k=_Az2so90.aei.warrior.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booi View Post
    These are hidden in their respective druid/rogue sections. I'm not sure why they didn't nerf free shouts rather than this rubbish.
    stealth can still be broken by piercing howl, which did get nerfed from the free shout list. drums of war no longer reduces the rage cost of piercing howl which means you can't spam it with 0 rage trying to get a rogue to pop out at the start of arenas. piercing howl was a better shout to use even before demo shout got nerfed as far as stealth is concerned. it popped them from stealth and slowed them at the same time, so you could almost always take one or two more steps then charge them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kojiyama
    So, basically, if you have 33+ points in Protection but don't have Deep Wounds and have 2/2 Improved Revenge, you would gain more DPS by swapping 2 points from Improved Revenge to Deep Wounds and dropping Revenge.
    so it still comes down to deep wounds or blood craze again with 2 free points in prot to put into BnT/gag order/impending victory?
    Last edited by Destruyen; 02-07-2011 at 05:29 AM.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booi View Post
    And what are you getting if you drop BnT for improved revenge? Is it worth dropping rend from the cycle given the new devastate?
    Think: http://wowtal.com/#k=_Az2so90.aei.warrior.
    I will be modeling Rend as an option into rotations soon, but Rend is still a fair bit better than Devastate in terms of a single GCD. However, it's probably not better enough to be using on GCDs that can proc SnB--it would be best to use it on your 3rd GCD following a Shield Slam should SnB not proc.

    On a single GCD with Thunderstruck, Rend is about 30% better than Devastate.

    In this case, Thunderstruck becomes a fairly weak single-target talent but it does provide a slight increase to both single target and AoE tanking with its increase of Rend and Shockwave (if maintaining Thunder Clap) on your 3rd post-Shield Slam GCD.

    The important part about using Rend (and Shockwave) is knowing when to use them and not simply use them at the first opportunity. Additionally, Shockwave should be higher priority than Rend if it is available for that GCD, unless you have set up a refresh cycle where you can get double length out of your Rend by refreshing it with Thunder Clap (with BnT) if you are maintaining the debuff.

    But, yes, the build you posted is probably quite viable. It's pretty close to what I would be inclined to use. I guess you could also swap out Gag Order for Blood and Thunder if you really wanted to have a well-rounded TPS spec.
    Last edited by Kojiyama; 02-07-2011 at 06:06 AM.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojiyama View Post
    On a single GCD with Thunderstruck, Rend is about 30% better than Devastate.
    It'll be nice when the complete model is finished. With devastate's value being dependent on sword and board procs/DW uptime, and including the extra ticks that you get from non-BnT rends. As always, appreciate the effort koji.

  10. #10
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    I think improved revenge has enough value by hitting a secondary target that I'd take it even if it is not stand-out better than devastate in a single target rotation. What I'm trying to weigh up myself are two things:

    - With heroic strike nerfed, do I still want incite? It's competing directly with blood and thunder, and the 3rd point is in competition with every other filler.
    - If I want piercing howl, I can probably only get 2/3 war academy. Big deal? Is my current TPS is being propped up by heroic strike so much that I'll struggle without going into arms a bit more?

  11. #11
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    Even with Heroic Strike nerfed, I would still think Incite is fairly strong. Heroic Strike is still going to be above (Improved) Revenge in terms of damage (rather than up there with Shield Slam like before!) and a good 40-50% up on Devastate--so it still hits pretty hard.

    Just the passive Crit bonus of Incite (not the proc) is equal to or greater than Cruelty, War Academy, and Hold the Line in terms of DPS. So, Incite is a pretty valuable threat talent.

    Also, for those who have Deep Wounds it significantly increases the value of Deep Wounds due to the synergy there.

    Heavy Repercussions and Deep Wounds are still the 'big' optional DPS talents, but Incite is pretty much at the top of the other second-tier DPS talents.
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  12. #12
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    It seems like, in a spec dedicated to purely t/dps that
    http://wowtal.com/#k=_A7cUECQ.aei.warrior.

    would be the way to go. You keep all the juicy and fun aoe talents like bnt and thunderstruck and sacrifice the utility of things like piercing howl and gag order.

  13. #13
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    I'm personally gonna roll with http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LG0cZ0bZIdGzRRodbu.
    I rarely find a use for Gagorder and having 3/3 shield specialization hasn't been a dire need for me.

    For the time being i'm running with a similar build except i have Bloodcraze+Piercing Howl+2/3War Academy instead of Deepwounds, and allthough i will miss PH on Nefarian (i'm the add tank in phase 3) i'm sure i can get by just fine.

  14. #14
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    My current spec: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LMZhb0oZIfhdRRodMu
    Post patch: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LG0cZZIfGdRRod0u

    I currently have the piercing howl build in large part because I wanted to become accustomed to a weaker Cleave/HS before the patch hit. I'm not finding as many uses for Piercing Howl as I'd hoped though, aside from 5 mans, and I can make do without it.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
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  15. #15
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    Keep in mind that Heavy Repercussions is a pretty massive TPS boost. (You can now compare this to the others based on your Shield Block uptime in the newest version of Rawr. Just input your Shield Block interval in the options and the TPS gains from the talent should show up correctly.)

    It's likely to be a lot better than Invite or Thunderstruck unless you simply don't use Shield Block much.

    I tend to like Brage's posted spec quite a bit.
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  16. #16
    Brage's spec is quite efficient.

    I like to think gag order is useful, but in reality as i review logs it isn't anything to write home about.

    We lose some rage gen that really isn't going to break us, and we lose a cast offset for , I think, more tps/dps using deep wounds.

  17. #17
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    Gag order is more something 2 pull casters towards you with silence you, i think.
    But since we mostly have A mage or anything silencing it, i havent specced it.
    Also interrupting a boss for instance with Herioc throw wont happen for me.
    That's why I choose this spec : http://wowtal.com/#k=IOVjoOxi.aei.warrior.

    Found the use of safeguards quit usefull on many fights like for instance Cho'gall.

  18. #18
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    I'm not sure I could live without Gag Order. I use it so frequently, and I just know that without it, I'd find myself in a situation where I want to use it and instead I'd want to scream! Besides, I still run a lot of 5 mans, where it's incredibly useful, and I'm not about to run a prot spec for raids and a separate one for 5 mans. Certainly I'm not willing to do it for slightly more threat, when threat isn't an issue anyway.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
    I'm empty and aching and I don't know why
    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
    They've all gone to look for America

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Reev View Post
    I'm not sure I could live without Gag Order
    In raid there's no need. In 5 man, it's nice, but i can CB the one I really want to shut up. Plus, i honestly don't make sure to heroic throw the caster 100% of the time, so meh ....

  20. #20
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    In Brage's spec, the best place to pull points from for Gag Order is probably one of the AoE talents or Improved Revenge if you don't need the splash damage. If you want all of those, Cruelty would probably make the most sense.
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