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Thread: Looking for suggestions on Nefarian phase 3 skeleton kiting

  1. #21
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    Got our first (rather messy) 25 man kill using this strategy. DBM does have a timer for Shadowblaze, I don't know if there's anything 'better' about the Bigwigs one. Would be really great to see a video of someone really practised at doing the kiting around the edge to see how to improve the timing.

  2. #22
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    I find nef at center to be a god awful position, we tank him in a corner like in p1, but that's just us.

  3. #23
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    The most important thing you want to know about kiteing with timer is that you do not move wile you have 1 or 2 seconds before timer runs out but just at 0. As the timer tracks when the ability will be casted and not when the ability will actually hit the ground.
    This is related to the possition of wich you tank Nefarian at, if it is the center you`ll probably have 2 good seconds in wich you can move before the shadowblaze gets to the ground and spawns. Wile you tank him at a side and your kiteing towards it (since you are avoiding fire) you will have less than a second to get out of the shadowblaze cast wich starts from Nefarians head and goes towards a possiton of a random warrior add marked at the time of cast.

    Generaly you would want to stay still and just move at new casts untill the 3rd shadowblaze , wich is where the adds should despawn. Then when they are up again all you should do is constantly move back (dont run just walk back) and plan your movements haveing in mind the fire wich you will spread around and then despown.

    A good trick is for the Nefarian tank to watch where the kiter is going for and avoid haveing Nefarian`s breath hitting the adds as it will reset the energy to 100 again and you`ll most likely wipe. You can easily avoid that with a warrior tank on Nef who can leap 180 degree without any worries about dps repossitioning to his tail swipes. Wishlist the tail isnt so important for the add tank as if you kite at the outer ring you will be away enouth from the tail swipe.

    Another good trick is if your getting tied at low % of Nefarian`s HP and haveing tons of fire everywhere to have a nice circle around a fire-free pilon wile you are waiting for the fire to despown.

    alternative:

    For guilds that are stugleing with kiteing and fires everywhere I strongly suggest to take two electrecutes during phase two. Its perfectly doable as long as you use your own survavalability skills+raid wide aoe mitigation skills (such as wall/am/hymn) and healthstones. There is nothing but electrecutes as raid damage in phase 3 so you should not be worried about anything else. Dot Nefarian end of p1, do some add dmg (stick shamans on 2 adds for 6 second interrupts and meles in another group for the 3rd) take an electrocute, keep dotting Nefarian, kill two adds and have the last at 5-10% HP nuke down Nef take another Electrecute. Then heal up and continue dpsing Boss wile you are waiting for the lava to drop. Phase 2 has a timer (3 minutes I think) this means you can still get nefarian to 61% as you enter p3, the goal is to kill the last add just about you are entering p3. The boss should be at 61-62% and you can take an electrecute as soon as you enter p3 without adds yet being ressurected.
    Then you with pot usage and Lust you should be able to take down the boss within two or less minutes thus haveing alot less of pressure on your add tank in terms of the survivaliability combinations from add dmg and electrecutes all together.

    There is a really big difference between p3 in 10 and 25 man and I am speaking from experience. You have twice more adds in 25 man wich means you have alot more problems when they have more stacks and are hitting you wishlist you are getting electrecuted. After a minute into p3 just before when adds are about to despawn if an electrecute hits it will most likely result into a tank death if you do not activate a CD.
    The problem will be after another minute when you have to deal with the same thing again. If you keep your head cool you will survive it but as low % the boss is and as faster the shadowblaze is shooting at you there is more pressure so you could fail misserably. And It is alot more tense on 25 man than 10 thats why I suggest you use the 2 electrecutes per p2 tactic.

    On 10 man you can not afford two electrecutes in p2 as simple as you have just 3 healers who will mostlikely run out of mana and only a few classes that can mitigate the aoe.So the add tank will have to face 8 or 7 electrecutes with adds, However this will not be much of an issue as there are just six adds hitting you and you cant die so easy, just save your cooldowns for when adds have above 10 stacks and before electrecute. Otherwise kiteing paths/tricks are the same just a bit less pressure with less adds.

    Other usefull tips:

    -Zoom out your camera and use at top above head view. /console CameraDistanceMaxFactor 4 macro so you can even plan your circleing better shadowblaze-wise.
    -Stun/freeze/fear (with tremble glyphs) adds ONLY after the first two shadowblaze casts wile you are away enouth from fire wich is moveing towards you.
    -Warrior leap/intervene can be used only if you wish to take an electrecute w/o adds meleing you, its not advised to fly around the room without any idea of what you are doing.
    -Priest pull can save you from another electrecute+mele combo, however make sure you use this as late % trick and mind you can land a fire near your raid.
    -Never slow/trap adds. And no, warrior piercing howl does not help.
    Last edited by Urud; 02-08-2011 at 07:58 AM.

  4. #24
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    Short update: Every class has a way to mitigate the Electrocute Damage in Phase 2
    - Warrior: Shield Wall
    - Warlock: Soul Link is enough (maybe Absorb if Destro)
    - Shaman: Glyphed earthclaw (Shamanistic Rage if Enhancement)
    - Hunter: Glyphed Raptor Strike
    - Death Knight: AMS & IBF
    - Priest: Power Word: Shield
    - Druid: Barkskin (maybe Feral Shieldwall)
    - Paladin: 20% reduction and Bubble
    - Rogue: Feint & Cloak of Shadows
    - Mage: Iceblock & Mana Shield (maybe Ice Barrier if Frost)

  5. #25
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    I imagine this strategy isn't viable for one reason or another, but I would like to know just to make sure, why, if you have the class combination for it, can you not just maintain a permanent cc on the adds in phase 3? We have 3 priests that can shackle, 2 druids for root, and a warlock with glyphed fear. I understand the fire would start affecting ccers positions eventually but all that would be required is to move to another side of the room and wait for the adds to break cc and come to you then cc them again. My guild has only spent about 2 hours on him so far and have gotten him pushed into phase 3 with 52% health left (3 crackles in phase 1 and another in phase 2) but haven't had time to experiment with phase 3 much since we don't raid too often. My only assumption at why this isn't viable is that the adds break from cc when touched by fire? I realize the adds will constantly be gaining stacks during this but that wouldn't matter if they're not attacking anything at all as a result. Any information would be great to avoid wasting time with a known fruitless strategy later on thx.

    And as an fyi this is the 10 man version
    Last edited by Boomashock; 02-09-2011 at 11:56 AM.

  6. #26
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    Like you said, the two dangers are the fire growing into the raid and the fire breaking the adds from the CC. They also gain quite the large movement speed buff in addition to the damage buff from their stacks so if a few get out in 10 there is a very good chance they will quickly run over and gib someone if they've been alive for a few minutes. Once that fire starts filling up the room and coming more frequently it is almost impossible to keep them locked down for a prolonged period of time. Snares also become ineffective so you get left with roots, shackles, freezes, and knockbacks. The idea about switching sides of the room and letting the adds come to you won't work either, thats exactly how you will fill up your whole platform with fire. The adds need to be kept away from where you fight for a long enough period that the fires will despawn in another area if you are going to do that. If they start splitting up, you will end up with fire all over the place too.

    You could definitely utilize CC to make it easier (it helps alot when the adds do not get up and go down at the same time) but I'm not sure about permanent CC unless your raid was completely stacked for it and you had incredible coordination.

    You are best off getting your add tank used to it. It is very easy and trivial once they know when and where to move and it controls your fires at the same time.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightmgl View Post
    You are best off getting your add tank used to it. It is very easy and trivial once they know when and where to move and it controls your fires at the same time.
    Had to quote this. If your add tank manages to do his job right there's no problem with his incoming damage due to resetting the adds over and over again. You can even use damage breaks if he's out of cooldowns.

    And i'd really recommend using the baradin trinket, it's golden (1m 400 resistance cooldown) in reducing the electrocute damage - 40k resists proves the rule.

  8. #28
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    Just an additional note, it appears they made these things immune to some forms of CC this patch even though it wasn't documented. They are now unfearable and as a side result of hunter changes you can't perma root or double trap anymore. Wouldn't be surprised if they nullify other forms of CC if they feel people are avoiding the mechanic.

  9. #29
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    Well... That's a strange change... How do you handle them now in 10man P1 without a reliable kiter/offtank?

    What are the Hunter changes you are speaking of?
    What do you mean with perma root?

    I can see the fear being possibly a bug, since they are actually undead - it might have been a hotfix that wasn't fully implemented in the patch.

  10. #30
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    The adds have to reset a couple of times to have a clean kill. The flames are somewhat predictable once you get the hang of it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkYLAMmPSa0

    Checkout our video to see what I mean

  11. #31
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    Question: what is the shape of the fire ball??? I am kiting tank and I hardly get one or 2 attempts on p3 to pull this,.. and i failed so badly yesterday with 31 stacks on the adds. Is it a circular fire? or does it fill the entire hall in one line as valiona deep breath on BOT??? any diagaramatic explanation would help a lot. we tank left on the NE-south pillars(left side)

  12. #32
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    Personally I find it easiest to not try to 'look' for it, get an addon like bigwigs that has a timer for when it is going to come. @ 1 second turn and strafe run so that the ads move quickly for a few seconds and then go slow again so you avoid it without really having to see it before starting to move.

    It is a little fireball that goes toward a spot so if you strafe run when it comes out u should be fine.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelnut View Post
    Personally I find it easiest to not try to 'look' for it, get an addon like bigwigs that has a timer for when it is going to come. @ 1 second turn and strafe run so that the ads move quickly for a few seconds and then go slow again so you avoid it without really having to see it before starting to move.

    It is a little fireball that goes toward a spot so if you strafe run when it comes out u should be fine.
    thanks but i did kiting only once and I could not catch how the fire looks,.. is it circular or is it a straight line ??? i do not want to upset my RL with another wipe if we push into p3 :P we are struggling a lot at p2 usually

  14. #34
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    The fireball is a small ball that comes toward the location of the ads upon its cast. The resulting pink fire moves in a line toward the nearest players, if the raid is positioned correctly far away from it then it should move toward the OT and his healers so that it can be placed where desired.

    If the raid is too close however then pink fire will wander off in funky directions toward near people where you probably don't want it to go. I personally recommend tanking Nef in the center so the OT and his healers simply go in a circle around the outer edge of the room and the rest of the raid stacks on the far side of Nef away from the OT so that fire never goes near anyone and never becomes a problem because it de-spawns before the OT makes a full circle if moving correctly.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelnut View Post
    The fireball is a small ball that comes toward the location of the ads upon its cast. The resulting pink fire moves in a line toward the nearest players, if the raid is positioned correctly far away from it then it should move toward the OT and his healers so that it can be placed where desired.

    If the raid is too close however then pink fire will wander off in funky directions toward near people where you probably don't want it to go. I personally recommend tanking Nef in the center so the OT and his healers simply go in a circle around the outer edge of the room and the rest of the raid stacks on the far side of Nef away from the OT so that fire never goes near anyone and never becomes a problem because it de-spawns before the OT makes a full circle if moving correctly.
    awesome thanks so much,.. will ask RL to place nef at center and kite the adds in the edge and place the raid grp on the other side of nef while i kite the adds.
    i will put this to test tonight.

  16. #36
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    Keep in mind the MT needs to slowley turn the boss so that Nef's head never faces the OT and ads or his breath will reset them the same as the fireball

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    DBM does have a timer for Shadowblaze, I don't know if there's anything 'better' about the Bigwigs one.
    I can not emphasize enough how much better the BigWigs Shadowblaze timer is. DBM does such a bad job of this that I actually learned to tank this phase by ignoring the DBM warnings and do it by eye (I still screw it up, but I do a much better job without DBM). Our raid leader read this thread and suggested BigWigs and it makes this fight SOOO much easier. The spoken 5-4-3-2-1 timer on the Shadowblaze gives me the freedom to watch my other important stuff (you may have to go into the settings for this fight and the specific 'Shadowblaze' warning and click 'emphasize' for the vocal countdown, I'm not sure*).
    I'm not going to say that BigWigs is better than DBM in general, but in phase 3 of this specific encounter DBM does more harm than good and BigWigs does an excellent job.

    [*Edit: Just confirming that the vocal countdown is part of the Super Emphasize option and you'll need to manually activate it. To enable it go to Interface->AddOns->Big Wigs Encounters->Blackwing Decent. Switch it to Nefarian in the drop-down menu (upper right). Then hit the >> button next to Shadowblaze and under the Advanced Options tab enable Emphasize. You may also need to go to Interface->AddOns->Big Wigs->Super Emphasize and tick the Countdown box.]

    Quote Originally Posted by Urud View Post
    The most important thing you want to know about kiteing with timer is that you do not move wile you have 1 or 2 seconds before timer runs out but just at 0. As the timer tracks when the ability will be casted and not when the ability will actually hit the ground.
    That's true, but I found it was better to move them at 2 than 0 to be safe. If you're moving them at 2 and find yourself doing laps of the arena too quickly then you're probably moving them too far after the Shadowblaze lands.



    Some personal bits of advice that people might find useful are:
    The raid should be prepared to move Nef right up north and out of the way at the start of p3 if the adds were placed badly (up to p1 add tank and p3 add tank to call that). After the adds are clear and the fire is gone then move Nef back into the center. In 10-man mode we entered p3 with two of our best DPS dead, the adds scattered way too close to the center of the ring and managed to get Nef to 3% (ultimately dying to a few stupid unrelated mistakes). With Nef up north I was free to grab the adds and spawn as much fire as I needed to get them all up together and establish my kiting pattern. Once the initial fire despawned Nef was returned to the center and we managed to get everything back on track.
    It's not something you want to do but it means you don't have to call a wipe at the start of phase 2 because the adds aren't perfect. It's really good for turning a wipe into a solid practice run/potential kill.

    The other less-than-perfect thing we had to do on our kill was switch add tank healers right at the end (<9%) because the crackles and high stacks on the adds had driven my healer out of mana. In theory my healer shouldn't have gone oom but with Nef in the center swapping healers isn't a huge deal, so being prepared to do it doesn't hurt.
    Again, it's not plan A but it's a good recovery method. Preparation for when things go wrong is really valuable in this fight.

    Also, after the first Shadowblaze and the adds are up DON'T start moving the adds clockwise/anti-clockwise in your kiting pattern just yet. You want to move them to the very edge of the ring until the fire arrives there (obviously you still want to keep them out of it so start kiting if you have to). There's two reasons for this. First, it's just a nice little rally point to give the tank and healer a chance to get setup. Second, you want to make sure that the Shadowblazes all land as close to the edge of the arena as possible. This coupled with short but sweet add movement completely negates the possibility of the fire making it to the raid and slightly increases the amount of time it takes to do a lap (bigger circle, longer laps).


    Just a general breakdown of our strategy:
    Phase 1:
    Hunter pet-tanking/kiting the adds until they dropped. Adds were placed well near the west platform. OT on Ony, MT on Nef, two crackles. We've squeezed three into phase one a few times but two is much more reliable.

    Phase 2:
    Four on south platform, three on east and west. All ranged on Nef with the adds going down just quick enough that we beat the 3 minute timer. Ideally we'd get two crackles in phase 2 but for whatever reason we only got one in.

    Phase 3:
    OT picks them up and leaves them in the flames for a second to get all their stacks equal (very important!), MT holds Nef in the center facing north turning Nef to face the flames as the fight goes on. OT stays close enough to the fire that the fire is drawn to him instead of the raid, moving anti-clockwise along the very edge of the arena every time the Shadowblaze timer gets to 2 seconds (again, remaining close enough to draw the fire but far enough for the adds to stay clear of it). The remaining crackles went off pretty well, but like I said before our healer went oom on like 9% so he had to switch jobs with another healer. We saved Blood Lust until phase three to help keep me alive during high stack adds/crackle combos.

    As a warrior I found my shield wall and enraged regeneration to be great for keeping me alive during crackles, and when the adds had high stacks my vial of stolen memories (I think that's the name) dodge trinket right before a crackle helped top me up before/recover afterwards. I didn't use it but Last Stand after a crackle will save your life with high stack adds on you (provided you let your healer know to overheal you).
    Rend+Thunderclap, Cleave and Demo Shout were all that was really required for threat generation. Towards the very end when it was clear Nef would be dead before the next add reset I started just using Shockwave to stun them. It wasn't important but it gave my new healer a bit of breathing room.


    [That's all a bit long and random, but hopefully someone takes something useful away from it.]
    Last edited by Arkian; 05-03-2011 at 03:31 AM.

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