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Thread: Looking for suggestions on Nefarian phase 3 skeleton kiting

  1. #1
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    Looking for suggestions on Nefarian phase 3 skeleton kiting

    Hello all, I am clear on all the Nefarian mechanics up to phase 3 however when working on him last night I only had one attempt at phase 3 skeleton kiting before we had to quit and I was hoping people with more Phase 3 experience may have some suggestions.

    Basically I am looking for tips, paths, etc people use to best avoid the pink fire and details on the fire mechanic in general so I know what to look for and avoid.
    • How often does he shoot the fireball thing to re-activate skeletons?
    • Where does the pink fire spawn/path?
    • Does the fire disappear after some time and if so how long?
    Thanks for any tidbits, all information is appreciated no matter how big or small even if it is just a personal preference or positioning.

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    -EDIT- updating this initial post with the helpful info from replies

    P3 Positioning
    • NefarianPath2.jpg
    • Nef tanked in the center of the room
    • OT & OT healers move in a circle around the outside edge as slowly as possible and then briefly run to avoid Shadowblaze from hitting skeletons. Timed correctly kite path can be kept up indefinitely with fire disappearing before you get back to where you started
    • Raid stacks on far side of Nef away from OT and skeletons
    • Nef turned slowly in a circle so that his breath never faces toward the skeletons
    P3 Timing
    • 0:00 - First Shadowblaze resurrects all of the adds
    • 0:30 - Second Shadowblaze (30 secs after the previous one)
    • 0:55 - Third Shadowblaze (25 secs after the previous one)
    • 1:15 - Fourth Shadowblaze (20 secs after the previous one)
    • 1:30 - Fifth Shadowblaze (15 secs after the previous one)
    • 1:40 - Sixth Shadowblaze (10 secs after the previous one)
    • 1:50 - Seventh Shadowblaze (10 secs after the previous one)
    Tips
    • OT be sure to use the BigWigs addon as it does a good job of giving you a timer for the Shadowblaze cast so that you know when to move slowly and when to run to ensure skeletons never get hit.
    • Do not slow the skeletons with anything ever (make sure huntards/mages are aware of this)! Objective of the OT is to tank through all the skeleton damage and focus on moving them as slowly as possible so that they never touch the pink fire and then run to avoid Shadowblaze before moving slowly again. Need the skeletons to be able to move quickly to follow the OT and avoid the Shadowblaze or they will reset and not deactivate.
    • OT pickup and use Mirror of Broken Images trinket as it does a GREAT job of minimizing Crackle damage with its 'on-use' ability (increase resistances by 400 for 10 seconds).
    • Make sure the first Shadowblaze that activates the skeletons activates ALL of them before moving away. It is really important to keep them all together for control and reset purposes.
    • OT Healers need to remain out in front of the OT and pay attention to the damage spike nature of the encounter. They need to know you go from kiting very slowly with minimal damage to suddenly running to avoid Shadowblaze and taking lots of damage based on skeleton stacks. We found that 2 healers following me around out in front plus one druid coming over occasionally to roll hots worked very well (in our 25m kill).
    Last edited by Squirrelnut; 02-04-2011 at 11:44 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelnut View Post
    How often does he shoot the fireball thing to re-activate skeletons?
    30 25 20 15 10 10 10 10 .. 10
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelnut View Post
    Where does the pink fire spawn/path?
    At the shadowblaze impact, pathing stellar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelnut View Post
    Does the fire disappear after some time and if so how long?
    Roughly after 100 energy.

  3. #3
    First off get big wigs, even if you turn everything off but the shadow blaze timer, it's worth it and makes the job easier. Here is a link of our first kill with me kiting in p3, one thing I really realized mid of that pull is that early on I was kiting them way too fast, you want to start out slowly at first to give you more room to kite. Every kill since that first I have had the skekeltons drop twice now that I kite slower, if you have any other questions ask here or on the comment page(comment page emails me so I will get back to you faster though)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bPbYCVi5Wo
    www.blessthemartyrguild.com

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the tips!

    One tidbit I saw on the main TankSpot Nefarian thread was this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghos7Face View Post
    Something very important for P3 kiting is to not slow or stun those adds. They are perfectly tankable. Any slow or stun at the wrong time means that they are more likely to get hit by the flame.

    Also, move as little as possible. Only move enough to keep the adds out of the fire. The rest of the time sit still and eat the damage. If you move around too fast you will spread the fire too quickly and eventually you will run out of kiting space.

    0:00 - First Shadowblaze resurrects all of the adds
    0:30 - Second Shadowblaze (30 secs after the previous one)
    0:55 - Third Shadowblaze (25 secs after the previous one)
    1:15 - Fourth Shadowblaze (20 secs after the previous one)
    1:30 - Fifth Shadowblaze (15 secs after the previous one)
    1:40 - Sixth Shadowblaze (10 secs after the previous one)
    1:50 - Seventh Shadowblaze (10 secs after the previous one)

    And so on until you kill him. With our dps we needed only two successful resets to down him. If you can't achieve the second reset, it is very likely that your tank will die.
    So it seems the general consensus is that OT kiting skeletons doesn't care about taking damage, the #1 priority is resets and nothing else really matters. With that in mind the kite path and kite speed is purely dependent on shadowblaze cast & fire location.

    If you have timing of about 100 before fire disappears I was thinking of a path like this:
    NefarianPath.jpg

    EDIT: IGNORE THIS POSITIONING APPROACH!! It is much easier and more effective to use the positioning and timing described in the replies below with Nef tanked in the center of the room allowing you to kite indefinitely.
    Last edited by Squirrelnut; 02-04-2011 at 11:25 AM.

  5. #5
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    Just put nef into the middle and camps moves around just as they did on halion shadowrealm. You would need to run nonstop to reach the first fire

  6. #6
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    The only downfall I would see with tanking the boss in the middle and simply turning in a circle to always keep the OT & Raid at Nef's side would be the proximity to skeletons and capability to avoid Shadowblaze. Anyone have any input on tanking in the center and being able to avoid Shadowblaze? It definitely seems like that would be the best kite path option if it is viable without the skeletons being hit and preventing deactivation.

  7. #7
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    Hey Squirrel, you can see how we handled Nefarian in the middle and moving him, with adds on the outer grate side just kiting around there.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNFRANDinCQ

    Just have Nefs tail ahead of the kite tank+healers, and continously move around slowly so the tail is always ahead. If for some reason it'd be too much of a move for the actual dps and healers in the middle, the Nef tank can just run through him so he flips, and then have the tail be behind the add tank+healer.

    As for Shadowblaze, just watch the timer, and he spits out a large fireball slowly to where its going to land, so you can move the adds to avoid that area. Do not stun them or anything when SB is about to go off, you should be able to pull off 2 full resets in P3. After that just keep stunning them, frost nova, shadowfury,Hammer of Wrath etc. till Nef dies since the adds will be getting huge and truck you + Crackle is a dead add tank.

  8. #8
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    Ya it is a little hard to tell from that video whether the OT kiting the skeletons was able to move quickly enough to have Shadowblaze coming from Nef miss the ads when tanked in the middle. However, if Nef is far enough away that you can drag the skeletons and avoid the Shadowblaze then that would definitely seem like the ideal approach.

    Kiting in a full circle over and over should allow time for the pink fire to disappear so you could continue the cycle over and over as long as shadowblaze on skeletons is avoided and they deactivate over and over. I will give it a try this week using this approach.

  9. #9
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    Here is another video, it's a Paladin tank PoV for P3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTlZyZBVaOI&hd=1

    Was quite helpful for our OT and just see how he kited around the outside.

  10. #10
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    Decent video, demonstrates being able to avoid the Shadowblaze when Nef tanked in the center however the OT could improve the kite speed as he had one good deactivation but then made it around the room too quickly and caught up to the pink causing ads to reset and kill him.

    Goal is to move as slowly as physically possible with fire not catching up, then run quickly to avoid Shadowblaze, then move slowly again to take as long as possible to circuit the room and allow fire time to disappear.

    NefarianPath2.jpg

  11. #11
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    W00T We downed 25m Nefarian tonight. I tanked P3 skeletons and successfully reset them non-stop in a neat circle around the outer edge of the room with fire resetting before ever reaching it. I was able to keep skeletons deactivating so that they just all reset again right before the boss died (unlike the TankSpot video where the tank gets roffled and fire everywhere) I could have kept going another couple minutes. =P

    Thanks to Exiledknight for the BigWigs tip, it is very helpful to have the timer for Nef's casts and tank him in the center of the room and simply turn so that his breath is never near me or the skeletons.

    I think one of our healers recorded it with Fraps, if so I will try to throw the youtube link on here when I see him next.

  12. #12
    Grats on the kill, lol I wish our first kill was that clean, somehow we managed to kill him with a grand total of like 8 p3 wipes so I had damn near no practice at kiting. Since then other than a recruit hunter thinking "I'm gunna help r tank gewd" and dropping a frost trap this week, which just happened to get half them hit a whole 5 seconds before they were going to drop, I can kit them infinitely now, the week prior they were about to drop a third time when nef died.
    www.blessthemartyrguild.com

  13. #13
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    preserving this thread by moving to strategy section.

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    Thx Kaz

    Another thing to point out regarding our kill. The positioning of P3 is very important when tanking Nef in the middle of the room; make sure the entire raid (besides OT and OT healers) stacks on Nef's side opposite the skeletons. It helps prevent pink fire from heading toward the middle of the room if the raid is too close, you want the fire to follow the OT in a nice circle around the outside so that it disappears and everything remains stable with no one else effected.

    The other thing that I noticed on a fail attempt was that it is REALLY important to make sure all skeletons are activated on the first Shadowblaze. If they don't all activate then they will activate at a later time when you have already moved away and make it much harder to pick them up, throws off the timing and potentially cause the skeletons already up touch fire when you go to pickup the new ones heading for the raid.

    Really P3 is fairly easy if you position everything correctly and ensure activation/deactivation of the entire group of skeletons. If you start to have things go wrong then it all spirals out of control really quickly with no way to recover but if you start out well it is fairly straight forward to keep the kiting path & timing indefinitely even when Shadowblaze is being shot every 10 seconds.

    If your healers struggle with P2 + Crackles and you have an OT that has the timing of P3 down really well you could completely ignore Nef in P2 and just burn the casters to get to P3 quickly since you can basically kite indefinitely when there is much less raid healing required.

  15. #15
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    I am on a 10 man team, but I think you can do it this way for 10 or 25. What we do in the last phase is bring Nefarian to the outside of the ring with his left side against the wall. Then, everyone (except for the kiting tank and the kiting tank's healer) stands right against the wall on his left side. This makes it so the raid does not need to worry about flames at all. Hunters might still need to stand on the inside of Nefarian, but that's helpful for MD'ing any skeletons that slip past the tank anyways.

    The kiting tank just strafes around the massive space that is left over, accompanied by their healer. You can safely Shockwave the adds right after a Shadowblaze hits. When used properly this will give the tank the chance to get farther away and reduces damage intake. You generally do not want slows because they can mess with your kiting. If you are timing your kiting properly, you can continue running around without getting blocked by flames. You have to pace it properly though.

    If you'd like to see how I handle it, I have a video up:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3kSUAkuI28
    Grymauch, Dwarf Warrior, From Chaos: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rymauch/simple

  16. #16
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    does the latest boss mode DBM build have an accurate timer for the Shadowblaze cast also ?
    thanks

  17. #17
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    The one main suggestion I can make in terms of p3 kiting is that whether you are constantly moving or using a timer to only move when the next shadowblaze is coming; make sure that when the blaze is coming, strafe to move rather than walking backwards. You will often find that some of the adds have a tendancy to lag just a bit behind your movement if your walkin backwards and will clip the fire that just landed. If you use strafte the additonal movement speed makes missing the incoming fireball very easy.

  18. #18
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    I dunno if this falls into this category, but I also use Sindragosa's Flawless Fang (http://www.wowhead.com/item=50364). It stacks with that other trinket from tol barad, both have same cooldown (1 min) and can be used at the same time for a whopping 668 resistance unbuffed.
    "People who thinks they know everything are a great annoyance for us who do" - Isaac Asimov

  19. #19
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    The best possible thing you can do if you have issues in p3 is to take two elecrecutes during p2. This will be of a huge help in terms of uptime in your p3 and make the fight a huge deal easyer. Use raid wide cd`s from paladins and priests to counter the first one and personal mitigation talents/skills + HS for the second one.

  20. #20
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    It's probably not relevant anymore by now, but: If the adds don't stand up together in Phase 3, it's hard to collect them. We had this issue because we lack an offtank/Kiter in Phase 1, so the Skeletons are not piled up. But this doesn't matter as long as they are vaguely lying around in the same direction. Simply have the first Nefarian breath activate them.

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