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Thread: Heroic PVP

  1. #1
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    Heroic PVP

    Mike B. made the comment he got booted from a heroic group for wearing all PVP gear.
    (sorry Mike didn't know it was you! jk)


    But it was not the gear exactly; but fear that you were part of an annoying trend that has been going on since the DF system started.

    A toon will get to max lvl thru BG's then que for heroic in epic PVP gear having never done the reg instance or even reading up on it.

    In WOTLK this was annoying but the person could be carried ; In Cata things are much more serious and it is often better to kick them b4 they cause a wipefest.

    What Blizz should do instead of " discovering" dungeons you should have to do them on reg mode first to unlock heroic mode.

    That way ppl would have at least some idea what the boss does and thier role in the party.
    "It's always the Healer's fault; unless it's the Tanks fault, just ask the DPS'er in purples doing 5k!"

  2. #2
    In WOTLK this was annoying but the person could be carried ; In Cata things are much more serious and it is often better to kick them b4 they cause a wipefest.
    That's the kind of logic that makes people look like asshats, honestly. Besides, for just about any character hitting 85, PvP pieces are going to be more accessible and functionally superior to anything they could acquire before running heroics. (Or even well after heroics, hi weapons.)

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    Your misssing the point; true the gear is better, but the fact that they know NOTHING about the fights is what causes wipes.

    Such as continueing to dps the boss when they should be clering adds or vice versa.

    Also many are way overconfident from thier gear lvl and expect these dungeons to be burned through just like the WOTLK ones.
    "It's always the Healer's fault; unless it's the Tanks fault, just ask the DPS'er in purples doing 5k!"

  4. #4
    Your misssing the point; true the gear is better, but the fact that they know NOTHING about the fights is what causes wipes.

    Such as continueing to dps the boss when they should be clering adds or vice versa.

    Also many are way overconfident from thier gear lvl and expect these dungeons to be burned through just like the WOTLK ones.
    But that's not what you said, you suggested just kicking people in PvP gear as soon as you enter the instance. That's the point I was addressing and I'm pretty sure I didn't miss it at all.

    If you want to kick people for being bad, that's one thing. Kicking people the moment they enter an instance because they're using perfectly viable gear which is often better than PvE gear they have access to is just silly.

  5. #5
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    In PvP gear you are lacking DPS stats, mana reg stats, avoid/mitigation stats.
    You'd propably be better off in green questing gear than PvP gear.

    This and most people who pull this off don't have the first clue what you can and can't pull off in a group. In 5% of all cases it's propably unfair to boot somebody who is wearing all PvP gear. I apologize to those. The rest is a waste of space. If you can't be bothered to be properly prepared then go DIAF. There is the off-chance you learned how to CC in PvP but if you know enough about PvE then you know enoguh to get with minimal effort PvE replacements for your PvP gear.


    Here's an interesting thought. We are propably talking about the same people who will flame you an a BG if you turn up in all PvE equipment. Which is equally bad.

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  6. #6
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    It's not that simple. For some classes it is currently best to wear 2 or 4 pieces of pvp gear because the set bonus is overpowered. If you kick people wearing pvp gear on sight, you might be kicking someone who knows their class a lot better than someone decked out in full pve gear.

  7. #7
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    I'm quite sure that somebody in PvP gear doing his rotation at maximum potential for his/her spec (PvP or PvE) can out perform some 333 ilvl idiot that has no idea what he/she is doing. I can't comprehend how people can seriously only pull 5k DPS, people complain Blizzard made the game easier, but from a technical standpoint they made it harder with the addition of new spells. Rotations that were once common sense in TBC know need to be looked out or seriously theorycrafted. So back in Burning Crusade a lot of people didn't know that they should be hit capped but they pulled their weight regardless, not being hit capped nor knowing your rotation is a crisis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal View Post
    I'm quite sure that somebody in PvP gear doing his rotation at maximum potential for his/her spec (PvP or PvE) can out perform some 333 ilvl idiot that has no idea what he/she is doing. .
    But if he has no idea of how the fight is done and does his 'perfect rotation' on Mindbender Gursha fight (the Mind Control boss in ToT) , during his "absorb magic" phase, he will be healing the boss for 15kps.
    "It's always the Healer's fault; unless it's the Tanks fault, just ask the DPS'er in purples doing 5k!"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal View Post
    I can't comprehend how people can seriously only pull 5k DPS, people complain Blizzard made the game easier, but from a technical standpoint they made it harder with the addition of new spells. Rotations that were once common sense in TBC know need to be looked out or seriously theorycrafted.
    Problem with Cata which I absolutely hate on my DK, is they took away "static" rotations and now we have a "priority" system.
    IMO this made DK tanks one of the harder tanks to play now.
    Because you have pay closer attention to what you have available to get threat/survive, while other tanks for the most part just have to make sure they have rage/mana to do something. Which for me, a "okay/good" tank, makes it really hard to be a "better" tank now, which I was before the changes, since I was able to pay attention to the raid and my cooldowns. And before anyone starts to "rage" with "get better nub" or "learn to hotkey/macro" some of us don't have great hand-eye coordination skills, especially when we have to divide our attention between 3 or more things at once.

    But back to the Priority system, a lot of people just never bother to see what they should always try to use.

  10. #10
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    ive seen a warlock in full PVP doing 9k in grim Batol, and id say pvp takes a lot of situational awareness and arguably more skill
    i never kick anyone from a group until they have proved or disproved there ability.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uranos7 View Post
    Mike B. made the comment he got booted from a heroic group for wearing all PVP gear.
    (sorry Mike didn't know it was you! jk)
    If this was from Legendary, Mike B said "for normals." More than once.
    "Just because it's not nice doesn't mean it's not miraculous." - T. P.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyman View Post
    ive seen a warlock in full PVP doing 9k in grim Batol, and id say pvp takes a lot of situational awareness and arguably more skill
    i never kick anyone from a group until they have proved or disproved there ability.
    Thats impressive considering most warlocks i pug are lucky to pull over 6k. It is a common thought that anyone good at PvP should be great in PvE, since unlike in PvP where one must react to numerous RNG and a bunch of other things, you know whats going to happen in PvE. Dont always get your hopes up on this though...there's some PvP muscle heads out there that give anyone trying to PvE in PvP gear a bad name.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyman View Post
    id say pvp takes a lot of situational awareness and arguably more skill
    not always true, I know of people that are great at PvP: BGs, Arenas, and Dueling that couldn't dps their way out of a wet paperbag in PvE.

  14. #14
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    there again it all comes back to the player i guess

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    Yet again why I suggested that Blizz. should have it so you do the normals to unlock the heroic version.
    "It's always the Healer's fault; unless it's the Tanks fault, just ask the DPS'er in purples doing 5k!"

  16. #16
    But if he has no idea of how the fight is done and does his 'perfect rotation' on Mindbender Gursha fight (the Mind Control boss in ToT) , during his "absorb magic" phase, he will be healing the boss for 15kps.
    And again, what's that got to do with being in PvP gear?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity View Post
    And again, what's that got to do with being in PvP gear?
    Because I have had numerous bad experiences; such as; the tank that pulls the moment he zones in, the dps that "helps pull" cuz he doesn't think we are going fast enough, and the ppl that attack the boss ignoring adds to "get it over with faster.
    And most of these when I inspected them were wearing all or mostly PVP gear.

    The PVP'ers want to que up and get some quick points, then get back to PVP, and do not do the homework on how to do the instances, nor have they done them on normal mode b4 to know what to do.
    "It's always the Healer's fault; unless it's the Tanks fault, just ask the DPS'er in purples doing 5k!"

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal View Post
    I can't comprehend how people can seriously only pull 5k DPS, people complain Blizzard made the game easier, but from a technical standpoint they made it harder with the addition of new spells. Rotations that were once common sense in TBC know need to be looked out or seriously theorycrafted.
    You first say you can't comprehend how someone can do only 5k dps, then in the same sentence state how much more complicated and non-intuitive dps rotations are now compared with time past. Kind of a contradiction there, eh?

    To the poster above who said most warlocks they encounter are doing 6k dps, those warlocks must be seriously bad. Most locks I encounter do 10-16k dps, and much higher in AoE situations.
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  19. #19
    I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and say that this thread is just pretty dumb overall.

  20. #20
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    Yea, I think it's actually a gearscore thread in disguise. It has the same basic qualities of a gearscore thread:
    - People trying to equate gear with skill
    - People trying to justify this relationship by recounting how much skill was (or wasn't) required to earn the gear
    - People throwing in (making up) random anecdotes about bad experiences they've had in randoms, which they relate back to gear

    And since gearscore threads are banned...

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