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Thread: Yet Another Cataclysm Arms Guide

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal View Post
    Lambs to the Slaughter now causes Mortal Strike to refresh Rend in addition to its current effects.
    This is one of the worst changes I have ever seen. This will totally screw your rotation and is a definite DPS loss PvEwise plus you will not be able to know when your next OP will appear without tracking TfB separately with a timeline.

    I'd drop LttS if it wasn't so essential.
    Last edited by Disruptor; 03-01-2011 at 12:22 AM.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disruptor View Post
    This is one of the worst changes I have ever seen. This will totally screw your rotation and is a definite DPS loss PvEwise plus you will not be able to know when your next OP will appear without tracking TfB separately with a timeline.

    I'd drop LttS if it wasn't so essential.
    Uhh it will always proc every 6 seconds? the rend damage application will always be every 3 seconds no matter how much you refresh it with mortal strike.

  3. #123
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    yeh i thought with the redesign of rend this will make no differance at all except that u never have to re-apply rend with rend ever again.
    u can clip ur ticks so it makes no differance

  4. #124
    Nevermind. My mistake. I thought this new mechanic works only for Rend with less than 3 seconds left.

    Arms could be #2 DPS.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal View Post
    Lambs to the Slaughter now causes Mortal Strike to refresh Rend in addition to its current effects.

    Wow, kind of have mixed feelings about this. Number one it'll make Arms a hell of a lot easier, and the main reason I play Arms is due to it's extra challenges. PvP wise keeping rend up on a target along with Hamstring is a royal pain, it was even worse when Mortal Strike was a vital debuff aswell. However many of these recent changes just lower the Warrior skill-cap such as pretty much no longer needing to go into Berserker Stance.
    i agree - this really lowers the skill-cap on arms, which is irritating as hell. i mean, i could just play fury if i didn't want to have to think.
    on the other hand, it's also a buff because we'll save those low-dps GCD's that we were using on either rend or TC.

    edit: the more i think about this, the more retarded it is. wth is our rotation now?? if you remove rend, it gets stupid - CS, MS, OP... no more decisions about refreshing rend vs. TC... no more decisions about refreshing rend vs. CS... do we even have a decision tree anymore, or can i just pound on keys 1-3?

  6. #126
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    As I see it, Im all for interesting rotations and mechanics, but refreshing Rend is not complex nor involves any decisions, its a chore. You'll refresh it three seconds before it falls, one after, with TC... whatever. You refresh Rend or you refresh Rend.

  7. #127
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    The trend this expansion seems to be auto-refreshing dots:

    Marks refreshing Serpent Sting with Chimera Shot or Unholy refreshing diseases with Festering Strikes. Warlock's on Immolate, Spriests on SW:P, ect.

    IIRC even Rogues can auto-refresh Slice and Dice.

    I suppose this just brings us in line with everyone else, since I suppose TC refresh wasn't intuitive for dps classes.

  8. #128
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    hrm, what to spec now that i don't need BnT....

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  9. #129
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    Kaz: Well, MS will still only refresh Rend on one mob so... Been thinking about it but I guess I'll keep BnT for group situations.

    And Muffin Man: Very true, and btw, Cobra Shot refreshes Serpent Sting too for Hunters so it's not just Marks that can keep it up forever. It really is a universal trend, and if anything, it removes an annoying chore from the Arms rotation. The rotation is still far from "simple", compared to other classes/specs.

  10. #130
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    Kaz id prob take 3/3 in incite as although not amazingly useful it stil provides a small DPS increase? if u already have that then 30seconds battleshouts are always usefull too..

    the only good thing i can think about this is that it does also free up yet more rage for us so we may have more to dump, but also agreed its just put us 1 step closer to fury button mashing

  11. #131
    I'd recommend 3/3 Incite for high rage encounters as Atramedes or Al'akir. You should use Battle Shout when MS CD is between 1,0-1,5, ( assuming you use 2 OPs between 2 MS ) next swing is > 2 seconds and your rage is below 35. In low rage encounters or training at the dummy you could squeeze a Battle Shout between 2 OPs and the next MS in case you might miss the rage for the next MS - Slam - Slam ( or CS if ready ).

    In case of no damage incoming I'd take 2/2 Booming Voice and 1/3 Incite. In any other case 3/3 Incite sounds favorable.
    Rude Interruption 2/2 could be useful for Atramedes HC, Maloriak HC, Nefarian HC, Cho'gall HC. In every other kick situation 2/2 RI is a waste.
    Last edited by Disruptor; 03-02-2011 at 03:58 AM.

  12. #132
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    the thing i don't like about the direction arms is heading is we're reducing the gap between a well played arms warrior and a poorly played arms warrior. i almost expect to see patch notes that say "Mortal Strike now applies rend, refreshes rend, applies the CS debuff, stacks sunders, and makes you sexy".

    warriors already have a very, very easy dps spec to play; i'm not sure we need two. or maybe i'm just overreacting - we'll see how it plays out.

  13. #133
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    i'm with you, but we'll see how it pans out.

    btw, look, i broke top 200 dps parse as an arms warrior on stateofdps:
    http://search.stateofdps.com/?name=K...server=&class=

    and my gear is crap too >.<

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
    I will never be a kaz.. no one can reach the utter awesomeness of you.
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  14. #134
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    True. i want them to raise the upper limit on the DPS arms is capable of but i dont want them to do that by making it easy and boring.
    i guess time will tell on that one

  15. #135
    Arms improvement possibilites are sheer endless and if you are capable of mastering Arms you can easily dominate every fight ( except mechanics like valiona ). Mastering Arms is very complex and you rely on abuses and raid-CDs as glyphed salvation.

    Arms will never get easy since its mechanics are to complex. There will always be a way to increase Arms output by raising skill requirements.
    Last edited by Disruptor; 03-03-2011 at 08:33 AM.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disruptor View Post
    And I wont make my Logs public by now. Because too many abuses and DPS wins are not open to the wide community. Why should I sacrifice those secrets? I would make my advantage become useless and decrease my value of playing. My guild should have a reason to stick to me and my qualities. There were even things in ICC I could abuse to be WoL #1 without having half of my gear BiS ( and no, I am not talking about unholy frenzy or buff abuses outside of raids).
    So you're the best arms warrior in the world? Have you even said who your warrior is yet (I haven't read every post here)? I'm curious.

  17. #137
    I never claimed to be anything. I'm sure there is some korean pro or somebody who has more time to spend on WoW than me. On the other hand there are not many known people who are playing Arms very well. The only person I can think of is Hellorco.
    Arms is in a way better shape than its image. People see Arms like they did in Wotlk/BC, second DPS spec of Warrior which is more complex and has way lower output than Fury. This is not true at all. SimCraft-Results are not accurate but if you check SimCraft Arms is ahead of Fury right now.
    The point is why nobody realizes how strong Arms is: nobody extraordinary good plays Arms.
    If you sticked to Arms since BC and understand every mechanic and every possibility to increase your output like I did you will do fine (There are even people in my guild joking and threatening me they will send the logs to Blizzard :/.). Many people refuse to play Arms because they respec, go to a dummy and see lower DPS and instantly switch back. Arms is so complex that you won't see any huge outputs without practicing alot and theorycrafting or somebody teaching you how to improve.
    (Example (dummy) : I switched to SMF with 2 ilvl 372 weapons and my output was not anywhere close to my Arms output with 359.)
    Last edited by Disruptor; 03-05-2011 at 10:17 AM.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disruptor View Post
    I never claimed to be anything. I'm sure there is some korean pro or somebody who has more time to spend on WoW than me. On the other hand there are not many known people who are playing Arms very well. The only person I can think of is Hellorco.
    Arms is in a way better shape than its image. People see Arms like they did in Wotlk/BC, second DPS spec of Warrior which is more complex and has way lower output than Fury. This is not true at all. SimCraft-Results are not accurate but if you check SimCraft Arms is ahead of Fury right now.
    The point is why nobody realizes how strong Arms is: nobody extraordinary good plays Arms.
    If you sticked to Arms since BC and understand every mechanic and every possibility to increase your output like I did you will do fine (There are even people in my guild joking and threatening me they will send the logs to Blizzard :/.). Many people refuse to play Arms because they respec, go to a dummy and see lower DPS and instantly switch back. Arms is so complex that you won't see any huge outputs without practicing alot and theorycrafting or somebody teaching you how to improve.
    (Example (dummy) : I switched to SMF with 2 ilvl 372 weapons and my output was not anywhere close to my Arms output with 359.)
    Disruptor.

    Part of the reason you are seeing a lot of hostility towards you on this forum is because you state certain things but you do not show any proof. You say you have the logs but you don't want to put them out in public.

    This is a forum where we pride ourselves on showing proof of our calculations and to show that the truth is in the numbers. Why? Because as human beings, we are people who enjoy seeing the truth face to face instead of being told something. We live in a world where suspicion and hearsay does not really go very far. Just go to the court and see how fast you will get dismissed if you claim that Microsoft stole an idea from you that you had years ago and you have the proof, but you don't want to show it.

    This is why a lot of people are having a lot of problems with you at this time. I can understand that there is a language problem when it comes to expressing yourself but I want to explain and show you that this is why you are having problems getting along with people and you are not endearing yourself to anyone on the forums.

    As of this time now, we have tested the Simulation stuff and yes, sometimes Arms does come out on top. But this is after calculating every single thing possible and having everything go your way. In raids, this rarely happens. Things can happen at a whim. Fury at this time is better to adapt than Arms is.

    Is it possible to do better as Arms? Of course, it's a preference of style. Even I'm starting to prefer Arms over clunky Fury and the lack of buttons to press. But you must realize that the onus at this time is on you: you need to prove to us that Arms is so much better than Fury.

    As sad as I wish to use this as an example because frankly, it's because the site isn't the 'most' reliable site, look at the top 200 parses on stateofdps.com. There's a reason Arms is at the bottom with everything else.

    So you're going to tell me, that the top 200 guilds have warriors that have no clue how to play Arms or their warriors at all..? I highly doubt that.

    At this time, I have to say that you need to either show a screenshot of your damage or a parsing of sorts to prove your theories. Otherwise a lot of people will meet up with you with hostility because of this. You can say as much as you want that you have the parsing but the onus is on you to prove this.

    This is my advice to you: Prove it, or at this time you will have a very hard time for people to say "Yep, he's right."
    Last edited by Krenian; 03-05-2011 at 02:29 PM.

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  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disruptor
    Why should I sacrifice those secrets?
    why post in this thread then bragging about how you are the best arms warrior of all time? this guide is all about helping other warriors out who don't want to play fury. when i was logging top 20 arms warrior parses last xpac, if someone asked me for tips or secrets on how to eek out a little more dps i would tell them.

    no one on this site will take you serious with the attitude you have. so what if you say you can do 30k dps or whatever you are doing, you don't want to show your logs so you aren't going to have any credibility.
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  20. #140
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    With the Arms buffs and now CS surviving the nerf in PVE, it almost makes me do a evil grin, considering I had to step out as a tank in our guild. Is somebody in the PTR looking this new changes?

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