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Thread: Yet Another Cataclysm Arms Guide

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by marklar View Post
    got a log?
    No it was just some pug and I'm mainspec tank. IT's about 30% slam, 20-20 with ms/op, 10% auto attack, 10% opportunity, rest is wounds/rend/avalanch.

  2. #62
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    would love to know what sort of increase people are seeing if any and also if they are finding more spare rage to dump into HS?

    it seems fury has seen a nice increase in DPS so i cant see us catching them anytime soon but any increase is good in my eyes
    i was doing around 11-13k dps b4 the patch so to be honest if i was hitting 15k dps now i wouldnt be that unhappy.
    but then im only geared 333-346 and a couple of rep epics, so its all relative to be honest

  3. #63
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    i only ran a heroic last night, so it's really hard to judge so far. it FELT like i was doing a bit more dps, but i should be raiding tonight, so i'll see for sure. hopefully we have TB so i can get a direct comparison - some of the other fights are hard to judge.

    definitely loving the change to slaughter; gives me one less thing to micro-manage in the rotation. however, i was still NOT finding much rage to dump into HS.

  4. #64
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    I just went on the target dummy against a Fury Warrior friend whose a bit more geared he's got 2 epic trinkets, one pvp weapon and a couple more epics. My only epic is my belt and PvP weapon. We were pretty much neck and neck with myself spiking above at times. Mind you there was no execute phase which probably would do him way more justice, but i was still in my PvP spec, no incite (if it's even worth it), no Glyph of Slam either.

    Seems solid, but mind you I've been playing a warrior way longer then my friend has, who is by no means bad but just not as good as mwa .

    Really wish they didn't have to kill Arms in PvP tho for this...

  5. #65
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    check my quick math, but if white damage is 12.8% and mastery is 7.6% of my damage, executioner means 5.1% overall dps increase for two talent points? and that's not counting the extra rage generation at all.
    That's probably a good ballpark. You've got to factor in the difference from using Execute and the difference from the extra rage, but that's rather tricky and probably not a huge difference overall (maybe 1-2%?). What I keep coming back to though, is that it's a ~5% damage increase for 20% of the fight (probably less in practice, since other dps specs get a dps boost sub-20% as well, which would make it go faster), for a 1% difference overall. That's where it gets tricky.

    Are you sure this is a benefit? You lose 6 ticks of rend which is easy 15k damage at least, and 3 OP procs. Which using Shiz's numbers out perform a 10 rage execute but not a 30 rage execute, but if I were more math inclined I'd guess is at least competitive with a 30 rage execute it on average damage (due to the huge crit chance bonus).
    More directly, I think you'll get a bigger benefit out of being able to dump more rage into Execute by saving it with OP/Rend, since they both have relatively high damage:rage ratios.

    Overall I think the real missing piece of the puzzle for Arms right now is execute range. There's a lot of complex interactions between haste, rage and execute, and I feel that there's a good bit of optimization to be done there. I'd like to actually spin that off into its own thread and see where we go.

    On another note, the guide is now updated with the latest round of corrections.
    Last edited by shiz98; 02-09-2011 at 01:28 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiz98 View Post
    That's probably a good ballpark. You've got to factor in the difference from using Execute and the difference from the extra rage, but that's rather tricky and probably not a huge difference overall (maybe 1-2%?). What I keep coming back to though, is that it's a ~5% damage increase for 20% of the fight (probably less in practice, since other dps specs get a dps boost sub-20% as well, which would make it go faster), for a 1% difference overall. That's where it gets tricky.
    true, if i could move those points into something that would give me an overall 1% dps boost for the whole fight, i might do that. but where would i move them?

  7. #67
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    Woops, should be in another thread, sorry.
    Last edited by KillerSquirrel; 02-09-2011 at 02:45 PM. Reason: wrong forum

  8. #68
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    Oh yeah, I mean, 1% is still 1% and that still makes it a good place to put points. In my mind though, the small-ish dps increase puts it into the category of choice, and wouldn't necessarily make it mandatory over, say Blood and Thunder.

    Of course all this assuming it really is just a 1% increase. It could very well be more substantial increase once the optimal execute range rotation is sorted out, pushing it back into that mandatory category.

  9. #69
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    Can't really understand the Execute arguement...saying it does bad damage is kind of odd to me considering i just tried out arms in BH and it came up to 15.5% of my DPS #2. 20% of the fight.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiz98 View Post
    Oh yeah, I mean, 1% is still 1% and that still makes it a good place to put points. In my mind though, the small-ish dps increase puts it into the category of choice, and wouldn't necessarily make it mandatory over, say Blood and Thunder.

    Of course all this assuming it really is just a 1% increase. It could very well be more substantial increase once the optimal execute range rotation is sorted out, pushing it back into that mandatory category.
    i actually take both executioner and B&T. the thing i don't take yet is tactical mastery, but that's because i haven't tried it out yet, so i'll admit i can't comment on stance dancing. if it is truly a dps increase, i may have to go that way, and then it becomes difficult to decide (executioner vs. B&T vs. TM).

    so far, i'm LOVING the patch - i was seeing a secksy dps increase over where i was before. unfortunately, i had to tank most of the night, but i got to dps on valiona, and i was able to pull a solid 17k, even with 12 parries ><. our strategy is for melee to stack on the tank during theralion, so i can't really avoid those.

    i also completely spazzed out at 20%, unable to decide if i wanted to stay in battle stance or stay in zerker. i ended up jumping to zerker, popping recklessness/cooldowns/etc, then jumped back and fell back into my normal rotation. but looking at logs, execute still hits dramatically harder than anything else, so i'm probably going try staying in zerker next time and see how it feels in comparison.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/n...?s=3493&e=3820

  11. #71
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    Yeah I'm on the fence about stance dancing myself. I can do it optimally on a target dummy, but in boss fight I just might not have that kind of focus. It might be the sort of thing I only ever try to use during mundane DPS phases (Magmaw and Valiona seem like good candidates?).

    That execute damage is interesting. When you compare your average hits to the hits of Fury warrior, there's a large disparity. It could be due to the rage mechanics, with Arms getting burstier rage leading to more 30-rage Executes. Could also be due to CD usage? I dunno.

    I'm beginning to think the optimal spec/rotation is going to be TM-less, with points in BnT and Executioner; the resulting Execute stage would involve using only 30 rage executes... not sure what the best way to approach it though, regarding rage build up. We'll see...

  12. #72
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    yup, i agree - the execute phase needs the most discussion at this point. i'm still unsure, especially since my execute numbers don't match what i'd expect from paper.

  13. #73
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    I've only been doing Executes at 30 rage as well. It hits like a truck, I can imagine that after respecing to execution I'll have a better chance to keep the rage up to replace all/most slams for Execute. The rage difference between the two abilities right now is less than 10 right (including opportunity cost on slam)?

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muffin Man View Post
    I've only been doing Executes at 30 rage as well. It hits like a truck, I can imagine that after respecing to execution I'll have a better chance to keep the rage up to replace all/most slams for Execute. The rage difference between the two abilities right now is less than 10 right (including opportunity cost on slam)?
    if you hit execute with 40 rage, it costs you 30. however, if you hit it at 30 rage, it does the same damage (i think) and only costs you 20.
    slam is 15 rage.

  15. #75
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    Have you tested that execute behavior? That seems counterintuitive to me.

    Also, slam is effectively more than 15 rage, because of the pause in your swing timer.

    Although using Woodyman's 6.5 rage/second normalization it's just 3.25 * haste %, so I guess the gap is 11 rage between a 30 rage execute and slam. Even less depending on how the Sudden Death refund works.

  16. #76
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    how marklar describes it is accurate. the wording is weird but it explains it technically correct, it will always leave you with 10 rage minimum, if you have excess it'll charge the full 30.

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  17. #77
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    another log: 17.5k in a BH pug.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2...e/?s=382&e=621

    this time, at 20% i went straight to zerker, 5x execute, golem blood + recklessness, and then CS > MS > execute. i was watching, and i think i got most of the executes off with > 30 rage. max execute = 76k O.o

  18. #78
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    hmmm thats quite a nice spike in dps to finish off the fight
    must admit ive been playing with this myself in a couple of HC's and pushed my dps up significantly every time

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by marklar View Post
    another log: 17.5k in a BH pug.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2...e/?s=382&e=621

    this time, at 20% i went straight to zerker, 5x execute, golem blood + recklessness, and then CS > MS > execute. i was watching, and i think i got most of the executes off with > 30 rage. max execute = 76k O.o
    So the myth of Execute being fail for arms is dispelled right?

  20. #80
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    30 rage execute hits so much harder than anything else, i can't see a situation to ever ignore it. i'm not yet sure whether zerker or battle stance (with rend/OP) is the better way to go, though.

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