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Thread: Heroic Chimaeron

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksend View Post
    AHHH ok makes sense now. No, tank a and b tank the same amount. Tank a tanks the pull till he casts the first feud then B taunts. A does not taunt back until the next feud by which time even if it is on the next massacre break will still be gone.
    Ah-ha! Now I understand. Yes, this makes a lot of sense too. The only thing you give up with this is the DPS "tank", but that's certainly not a huge difference.


  2. #42
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    2% wipe >.< we went into the phase I think at a good time, but just started losing people faster than we could burn him. Any tips for trying to make that phase 3 last as long as possible while simultaneously maximizing dps? I know part of it is that we didn't have very many/awesome disc priests for bubbles. We've tried having the healers that have taunt mechanics (pallies, druids) taunt during the final feud to move up the aggro list but it just seemed slightly out of our reach. Any other tips you can give would be amazing... probably would've helped to not have to use brez's on me and have em for phase 3 >.<

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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    Any tips for trying to make that phase 3 last as long as possible while simultaneously maximizing dps? I know part of it is that we didn't have very many/awesome disc priests for bubbles. We've tried having the healers that have taunt mechanics (pallies, druids) taunt during the final feud to move up the aggro list but it just seemed slightly out of our reach
    He's immune to taunt in p3, so I wouldn't waste GCDs on that. Really, you just need to make sure people are using defensive CDs. Are you hitting enrage? That could be part of it.


  4. #44
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    no not enrage, we're ahead of that, we're just literally losing people, and the taunts aren't during phase 3, by "final feud" i meant feud before he gets pushed into p3, that way they're at the top of the threat right behind tanks (we taunt back as they call out their taunts) during p3, so dps has more time to make stuff hurt.

    We had barriers going/rogues popping evasion/etc it just didn't seem to matter at the end, people kept dropping faster than we could get him down, maybe next attempt will be better.

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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    no not enrage, we're ahead of that, we're just literally losing people, and the taunts aren't during phase 3, by "final feud" i meant feud before he gets pushed into p3, that way they're at the top of the threat right behind tanks (we taunt back as they call out their taunts) during p3, so dps has more time to make stuff hurt.

    We had barriers going/rogues popping evasion/etc it just didn't seem to matter at the end, people kept dropping faster than we could get him down, maybe next attempt will be better.
    Shaman can Rockbiter taunt too, if you need. Embue Rockbiter, cast Unleash Elements for the Unleash Earth effect. Which gives you 100% threat, or so it claims...so the tank might not even have to taunt back...weird effect...never tried it myself.

  6. #46
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    Deterrence / LoH rotation @ Feud

    Please let me know what you think about this has we haven't really tested this yet.

    This topic is mainly to show a possible way to counter the first melee attack on Feud phase which tends to kill the tank if they are not topped within 2 seconds.

    As previously mentioned the first Chimaeron's melee attack seems to be done right after Feud stops (which takes around 2 seconds) which gives the healers a 2 second window to top of the tank (160k hits at times) because the first attack will be instant.

    Some guilds do use a Guardian Spirit / LoH rotation to make sure the tank doesn't die though as we currently dont have a holy priest I am thinking in using another ressource which is Hunter's Deterrence ability.
    Hunter's Taunt plus Deterrence would be done every 1st and 3rd Feuds and LoH (glyphed to 7 min CD) would be used every 2nd Feud and probs a 4th Feud if needed (by other paladin).

    As the 1st hit lands very fast the short Deterrance duration should be more than enought time to get it parried. Most of the times I am only able to get 2-3 heals off within 2 seconds, 1 being pre casted right after Massacre followed by another cast and a instant heal (if I dont have to spend em before Massacre / have enought time) so I am thinking 5 seconds on Deterrence should be enought to get it mitigated.
    This requires some quick reactions on the Hunter tho a quick macro like this could do the trick:

    /castsequence reset=3 Distracting Shot , Deterrance
    /s Taunt off me in 5 seconds (which will obviously repeat twice)

    After the first melee hit the assigned Tank should taunt the boss, since the melee swings seems to be somehow faster I'd say the Tank has around 3-4 seconds to Taunt the boss before the next hit. To put it simple, if the Tank counts 4 (or 5) seconds as soon as Feud phase begins then Taunts then it should be fine.

    Feel free to show me your thoughts on it.

    Also, I've got a quick question...is Stoneclaw totem able to taunt raid bosses?

    Thanks for reading
    Last edited by Barboza; 03-11-2011 at 07:01 PM. Reason: Grammar

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barboza View Post
    Also, I've got a quick question...is Stoneclaw totem able to taunt raid bosses?

    Thanks for reading
    This is the first thing I saw in your post when I opened it, the situation you describe led to a very amusing situation when we spent honestly ... 1/2 hr at least .... trying to explain that stoneclaw shield glyph will not save you from a massacre

    Best reasoning ever:

    "you only need 10K to live, so if I am at 9K and drop the totem I will live" He couldn't understand that the ability hits for 9 bagillion and that absorbing 5K of 9 bagillion still leaves you dead.


    O RIGHT to answer your question, the reason that came up is because said shaman pulled the boss with totems before we were ready/had the bot up. So yes, it can taunt it. Although now that I think about it that seems really abusible.



  8. #48
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    Today I've asked the same question on my guild's forum and one of our Shamans replied with the following quotes:

    "Worthy of note: This totem is only effective when pulling mobs or when another mob attacks you in the middle of combat. While it will grab the attention of fresh mobs, this totem will not be able to taunt them off of you if you've established significant threat with the mobs."


    "So basically even if it could taunt raid bosses (not sure it can) the amount of threat it generates wouldn't be able to surpass the amount of threat the tanks already have."

    Meaning this shouldn't be used to get that first hit off the Tank @ feud as it wont work :P

  9. #49
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    I am wondering...did anyone tried to remove Break stacks with HoP? I'll only have the chance to try next Thursday most likelly, buuut, if Break is a melee ability like Sunder or even Malevolent Strikes (already tested and it does remove it, awesome for a Prot Pally with /cancelaura HoP macroed) mayybe...just maybe HoP could work on Break aswell, which in that case would mean you could do it with 1 Tank and 1 Retridin / Frost DK as tanks.

    Edit: Nvm it seems like some1 else already tried and wont work
    Last edited by Barboza; 03-14-2011 at 04:15 PM.

  10. #50
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    Hi, i'm a bit new to tanking bosses in BWD on my paladin tank as I'm usually dps or healer. However our tanks have gone inactive so I'm bringing my alt in the mean time.
    Since my guild is trying to do heroic Chimaeron and I've never even done him on normal mode as a tank(have done as resto shaman), I'm in need of a few pointers.

    I'm a little bit confused about the taunting with Double Attack.
    1. How much time is there between the time the boss gains the buff and the time that he actually does his two swings? Do you taunt the boss right before the cooldown is gone or do you wait for the boss to gain the buff to taunt?
    2. After getting hit by the Double Attack, does the other tank taunt back or not?
    3. Any advise you could give to a player that never done it before? I'm the paladin tank and the other tank is a warrior.
    Last edited by dawnrose; 03-17-2011 at 07:31 AM.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    2% wipe >.< we went into the phase I think at a good time, but just started losing people faster than we could burn him. Any tips for trying to make that phase 3 last as long as possible while simultaneously maximizing dps? I know part of it is that we didn't have very many/awesome disc priests for bubbles.
    Are you losing people to Chimaeron's melee, or from Mocking Shadow? From what I have seen, a lot of guilds have been wiping at around 1-2%; especially on 10m. If you are starting the burn phase with a raid that has full HP, and they are dying from Chimaeron's melee(rather than Mocking shadow), your DPS might just be a bit under the requirement. Make sure you are saving lust/heroism for when his health<20% to maximize skills like Kill shot/Execute etc.

    If Mocking shadow is your problem and you don't have any disc priests, you can always pop aura mastery to mitigate some of the shadow dmg. Otherwise, I would really look into recruiting a disc priest. Not only do they make fued phases much easier (when PW:B is off cooldown) but they also can almost make certain that Chimaeron will melee you before Mocking shadow picks you off. Holy priests with soul warding (i know, a bit unusual) can also accomplish this.

    Since you are getting to 2%, I bet if you keep hammering on this boss, eventually your DPS will get the right procs/crit RNG and tanks will get the right avoidance RNG for you to take him down.

    GL!

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by imnotachick View Post
    Make sure you are saving lust/heroism for when his health<20% to maximize skills like Kill shot/Execute etc.
    This is incorrect for two reasons:

    A: You should lust as soon as you get into the phase, while everyone is still alive. I'd even say slightly before the phase.
    B: Bloodlust/Heroism sub 20% does not make a difference in the speed of a boss kill. Using Heroism at 100% or using heroism at 20%, the boss will still die in the exact same amount of time. Therefore, BL/Heroism use should be based on having trinket and damage increasing cooldowns available, boss phases that require it, and soft enrages to increase healing (Council is a good example of this). However, there is no benefit to using heroism in execute range.

    Found the math:

    http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...wtopic#p385511

    Potera wrote:
    Nothing wrong with the math listed. The math listed could mis-represent the DPS increase of >35% and <35% (that is, that it's a percentage increase and not an additive increase).

    However, assuming that the numbers are semi-accurate representations, the math is fine.

    If your DPS above a certain percentage health (N%) is X, and below is X * Y, and heroism boosts your DPS by Z for W seconds, and the total boss health is H:

    H * (1 - N) = hit points above the "low health" threshold
    H * (1 - N) / X = Time to get boss to the threshold
    H * N = hit points below the threshold
    H * N / (X * Y) = Time to get boss from threshold to dead

    Important point is that: Time = Health / (Damage/sec). In other words, Time = Health * Sec/Dmg

    X * Z * W = Hit points of damage done while Heroism active, if above threshold
    X * Y * Z * W = Hit points of damage done while Heroism active, if below threshold

    Case 1: Heroism at 35%
    Time to reach threshold = H * (1 - N) / X (Same as above)

    Time to do damage while affected by Heroism: W
    Damage done: X*Y*Z*W
    Remaining HP: H*N - X*Y*Z*W
    Time to finish off boss from that point: (H*N - X*Y*Z*W) / (X*Y)

    Total time: H * (1 - N) / X + W + (H*N - X*Y*Z*W) / (X*Y)
    = H/X - HN/X + W + HN/XY - XYZW/XY
    = H/X - HN/X + W + HN/XY - ZW

    Case 2: Heroism at 100%
    Time to do damage while affected by Heroism: W
    Damage done: X*Z*W
    Remaining HP to Threshold: H * (1 - N) - X*Z*W
    Time to get boss to threshold from that point: (H * (1 - N) - X*Z*W) / X

    Time to get boss from threshold to 0: H * N / (X * Y)

    Total Time: W + (H * (1 - N) - X*Z*W) / X + H * N / (X * Y)
    = W + ( H - HN - XZW ) / X + HN / XY
    = W + H/X - HN/X - XZW/X + HN/XY
    = W + H/X - HN/X - ZW + HN/XY
    = H/X - HN/X + W + HN/XY - ZW

    Notice that the formula for total time to boss death yields the same equation in both cases.

    Again, this is reliant on Z and Y being percentage increases, but does not dictate WHAT percents they are. They could be anything. This also means that the Heroism doesn't have to correlate into an exact 40% increase for this to work. The percent can also vary amongst classes, when you consider that the raid-wide DPS will increase by a certain amount with heroism up vs. without it.

    Basically, it boils down to Heroism rocks, use it at the time when you can best stack it with trinkets and cooldowns, generally the start of a fight, unless there's a specific phase which benefits from being burned through (Maexxna enrage, Thane kill on 4H, etc).


  13. #53
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    I wanted to comment on this to make sure nobody tries it. Chimaeron is immune to distracting shot the entire fight. We actually had this exact thought process, we tried it, and he's immune. During wipes, I also spent some time hitting distracting shots during various phases just to see what would happen and he's immune in every situation I tried.

    Someone on EJ said they've tried it on multiple mobs over level 87 and all of them appear to be immune. I'm not sure if it's a blanket immunity, but it definitely does not work on Chimaeron, particularly in heroic mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barboza View Post
    Deterrence / LoH rotation @ Feud

    Please let me know what you think about this has we haven't really tested this yet.

    This topic is mainly to show a possible way to counter the first melee attack on Feud phase which tends to kill the tank if they are not topped within 2 seconds.

    As previously mentioned the first Chimaeron's melee attack seems to be done right after Feud stops (which takes around 2 seconds) which gives the healers a 2 second window to top of the tank (160k hits at times) because the first attack will be instant.

    Some guilds do use a Guardian Spirit / LoH rotation to make sure the tank doesn't die though as we currently dont have a holy priest I am thinking in using another ressource which is Hunter's Deterrence ability.
    Hunter's Taunt plus Deterrence would be done every 1st and 3rd Feuds and LoH (glyphed to 7 min CD) would be used every 2nd Feud and probs a 4th Feud if needed (by other paladin).

    As the 1st hit lands very fast the short Deterrance duration should be more than enought time to get it parried. Most of the times I am only able to get 2-3 heals off within 2 seconds, 1 being pre casted right after Massacre followed by another cast and a instant heal (if I dont have to spend em before Massacre / have enought time) so I am thinking 5 seconds on Deterrence should be enought to get it mitigated.
    This requires some quick reactions on the Hunter tho a quick macro like this could do the trick:

    /castsequence reset=3 Distracting Shot , Deterrance
    /s Taunt off me in 5 seconds (which will obviously repeat twice)

    After the first melee hit the assigned Tank should taunt the boss, since the melee swings seems to be somehow faster I'd say the Tank has around 3-4 seconds to Taunt the boss before the next hit. To put it simple, if the Tank counts 4 (or 5) seconds as soon as Feud phase begins then Taunts then it should be fine.

    Feel free to show me your thoughts on it.

    Also, I've got a quick question...is Stoneclaw totem able to taunt raid bosses?

    Thanks for reading

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by lewick View Post
    Someone on EJ said they've tried it on multiple mobs over level 87 and all of them appear to be immune. I'm not sure if it's a blanket immunity, but it definitely does not work on Chimaeron, particularly in heroic mode.
    I guess they changed it for every boss-enemy type after hunter were almost necessary for 10 man Halfus HC before those changes. Buying the raid ~5 seconds of no incoming raiddamage every 30s was pretty strong, too.

  15. #55
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    Cheers for the information

  16. #56
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    Nefarian will cast a shadow DoT spell on your whole raid called "Mocking Shadow," which deals one to two thousand damage per second to your entire raid.
    Just a heads up. The bosses name is Chimaeron. Haha, I thought it was funny. (:

  17. #57
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    We have 1 tank tank the boss the entire fight, and a 2nd tank that eats the breaks. Works perfectly

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjstarbby View Post
    Just a heads up. The bosses name is Chimaeron. Haha, I thought it was funny. (:
    No, it is nef who casts it. That is the way the hard modes work in BWD, nef interferes on all the fights giving them new abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ookie View Post
    We have 1 tank tank the boss the entire fight, and a 2nd tank that eats the breaks. Works perfectly
    you must be confusing break with something else, since break is applied by all melee swings except those during double strike



  19. #59
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    No, it is nef who casts it. That is the way the hard modes work in BWD, nef interferes on all the fights giving them new abilities.
    Oh right right. I am an idiot. :P

  20. #60
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    so is the idea here to get a stop DPS at 21% and wait for Feud to go off, then healers blow their load and get everyone topped up to full, push the phase, and go into normal burn mode?

    or we could push the burn phase at any point right after a massacre if the healers can bring them up?

    part of my question is that I'm a bear tank and I usually cast Tranquility during the first feud, but it seems like I won't be able to on HM.
    Worse than you.

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