10 m Raiding issues(Rotating people in and out)

[Hawkeye]

Hi,

Similar to many guilds in Wrath, our guild used to raid 25 mans and we were decently successful in finishing up content before patch 4.0 hit.

Our guild had about 30-40 different accounts of them 25 players, formed the raiding roster.

Fast forward to Cataclysm and again like many other guilds, our guild has decided that it is much easier to raid in 10m mode(due to different headaches with filling the 25, too many people to worry about standing in fire etc.).

However, now we face a different problem. We have about 15-16 people who are really raid ready(in terms of gear, proper spec, proper enchantments etc.). All of these players are really good in their own class and role.

The question is how do we rotate these people in and out of raids? How do we as the raid management/guild management rotate everyone and be fair doing that?

As an example: If we have 2 melee spots and 5 potential players being able to fill that spot, we can rotate them based on the fights etc. However at the end, we would like to raid with a set team such that we do not have to teach progression fights again and again. For a new encounter, that our raid might be struggling with, bringing in 1-2 new players might mean a big setback for the rest of the players.

However, on the other hand we would also like a bench and would not like to lose the extra 5-6 players because that would mean if we lose raiders due to the holidays or any other personal issues for a couple of weeks, we would either have to PUG, recruit or not raid at all.

The answer may be as simple as talk to the players involved and see how accommodating they are to give up their spots, but I would like an opinion from you before I do anything.

Also, if you think that the most obvious solution here is to recruit more people and form a 2nd 10 man group. How do you think, we should divide the groups? Should both the groups be balanced or one a group full of people who haven't done the content and are lacking in dps and the other group really strong?

Thanks in advance

[Bellanca]

What I'm doing for my guild (14-15 people on rotation for 10M raiding) is setting up Gear Grids. People list what bosses drop the upgrades they want, and they're rotated based on who needs what from which boss. At first you'll have to try to just rotate people in as you feel is fair, but as they start getting geared you'll find more people who need less gear from specific bosses and you can alter your raid group to tailor those people's needs.

To answer your other questions: if you DO form a second team, you have to make sure it's fair and balanced or you're just brewing Team A/B Team issues, where some people feel they're stuck with the people not good enough for the main team and resent the guild and their fellow members for it.

14-15 players is a healthy number for 10-man if you can get a good rotation in. 2 Tanks, 1 Tank OS, 4 Healers, 1 Healer OS. The rest DPS. That balance has been working well for us since ICC.

[Mr.Winkle]

A possible alternative, depending on who's on your bench and how many raid days you currently raid, is to add an extra day but rotate people.

For example if you currently raid twice a week, you could add a third day and then rotate who raids each day so that everyone gets 2 raid days a week.

[lasvious]

i find these to be opportunities to gage interest in the team. See who shows up to "fill in' or "rotate in" on fights even if you don't "schedule" them for that nights raid.

People that are showing up every night willing to help probably should move into the regular spots, whereas the people that are only coming when it's for sure "their turn" probably need to go ahead and work with getting a second group up and running.

[Bung]

I think

2 Tanks, 1 Tank OS, 4 Healers, 1 Healer OS. The rest DPS.

from Bellanca is very smart.

You might want to put your raiders under more of a microscope if your goal is to eventually do hard modes. My guild uses world of logs. You should really see how good your melee are at interrupting, who is taking too much damage (standing in the fire) etc...In addition to that are all of your raiders showing up 100% of the time? Are they always prepared with flasks etc...? You might weed out 1 or 2 people. If you don't and everyone is equal I think what Bellanca stated about rotating in for specific gear makes sense. Most guilds are somewhat fluid and you might just naturally lose people during a rotation type process.

[Roarc]

Depending on your end goal you can have issues and you can have opportunities. For normal 10 mans 2 tanks, 3 healers and 5 dps are what's required. So 10 people + 2-3 on the bench is a decent setup. However, you do need a mix of different classes as 10's are far more demanding than 25's on a "per player" basis. Tanks need to be ready to interrupt, a lot of fight favor more casters than melee as well as some CC.

If you're talking 10 man hard modes it's a different story. Here certain classes and setups are virtually required to be successful even then I think the limit today is getting around 5/12 or 6/12 bosses killed. You'll want to stack some classes as well which makes it even harder. Odd setups like 3 tanks and 4 healers happen, some classes are insane (Disc priests on Halfus for example).

So how do you sort the above out? Does everyone want to play 100%? Having a slightly bigger roster and say 3-4 people are fine with 50% attendance can be good. Gearing the people up will of course be trickier but you can solve that buy planning farm-clearing with these people in mind after the core has been geared up. 16 people for 10's is a lot but for hard modes it opens up a lot of options which you will need.

If you're more into "casual raiding" and just seeing the entire game, well normal modes are there and perhaps starting with 1 10 man and slowly growing to 2 10 mans might be the way to go. I would't advice going on a invite spree and put all the new kids in one group and have the other with all the "old core". That will break your guild appart.

[TheBigApe]

1) you can't satisfy everyone... especially cata being so melee unfriendly these days...
2) make an excel chart of raid time/dates they cannot attend... have them pick 2 or 3 days they cannot do...
3) chose the 2 dates most can attend and maybe this will also help to eliminate
4) rotation... well, i have 3 tanks rotating 2 spots, 3 melee for 2 spots, 4 ranged for 3 spots, 4 heals for 3 spots... but the selection of your roster is solely based on satisfying the majority member of the guild...

when you chose your top 10 closest guildmate and cherry pick the best class... then, i'm sorry but i have to say, you have stopped being a guild...

give incentive to another person to form another 10 man?