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Thread: Inner Rage Redesign

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by squats View Post
    The problem with that idea (and probably why blizzard would never do it) is that because we can cap our rage pre fight. Warriors would be compelled to stack their rage ahead of time (like we already do), but we would gain a huge damage burst at the start of a fight.

    its just not something they would be willing to do. even tho the benefit is very slight because we start a fight with heroic throw or CS.
    I hardly think that starting the fight with one ability with extra damage would be a reason to not use an otherwise superior mechanic. Plenty of other classes have done similar things in the past and it's pretty trivial. And plenty of other mechanics like procs can carry over between fights.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojiyama View Post
    I hardly think that starting the fight with one ability with extra damage would be a reason to not use an otherwise superior mechanic. Plenty of other classes have done similar things in the past and it's pretty trivial. And plenty of other mechanics like procs can carry over between fights.
    Yeah they kinda already have us designed in that way. I mean most warriors are blowing their cooldowns immediately and doing 60k dps for a few seconds because if they use them right away they come up 1 or even 2 more times again in some fights (recklessness). Its funny watching a fury warrior spike ahead of the tank almost instantly and need a hand of salv 10 seconds in.

    They don't seem to care much about it as they haven't done anything to alleviate it. Its a much bigger problem for PvP vs PvE too and they still don't seem to be altering our design to prevent it. In fact with the change to recklessness the initial burst damage will probably be even worse.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightmgl View Post
    I don't mean that because of an increase in DPS. I mean it is flawed because we will be gearing in a way that should prevent us from ever having that much rage to dump anymore since hit and haste will be seriously devalued because of the decreased usefulness of HS.
    I don't think so, because even with reforging we're going to end up with more and more haste.

    I've been sitting at 8% haste and believe it or not there are times when I can't dump enough rage without Inner Rage. Magmaw is a good example and a boss where I'd probably end up using Inner Rage whenever I hit that first heroic strike. There are a couple of Heroic bosses that similarly drop some raid damage where the new Inner Rage would work well for.

    The problem with the old Inner Rage was it helped you handle excess rage but then gimped you immediately after. And as some have accurately put it, it's reactionary nature only helped you dump rage when used pre-emptively which isn't always easy.

    The new model I feel alleviates that by giving us a turbo speed on our rage dump. Especially now that HS is out of the rotation, whenever I spike up I can immediately hit HS and if the next move in my rotation isn't enough to bring it back down to normal levels I can use Inner Rage to try again within a (MH for fury) swing timer.

    As a prot warrior though, I'd probably end up macro-ing HS to Inner Rage since all of Prot's moves are so low rage, so once you find yourself in need of a rage dump, you'd probably want it as fast as possible (but I dunno, tbh I haven't tanked yet in Cata).

  4. #44
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    The other problem is that capping out on rage is still a loss. So, basically, without being a fight where intake peaks are predictable (e.g. massive AoE phases or something) you kinda just want to use the new Inner Rage almost on cooldown provided if you are above 40-50 Rage or so as a tank then simply opt not to use Heroic Strike if you don't get enough rage.

    Letting yourself ever cap out is a loss of potential damage, so the 1.5s cooldown simply allows you the option of dumping. If you wait until you hit 100, you have probably lost a lot of the potential Rage you could have had to dump into Heroic Strikes.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojiyama View Post
    The other problem is that capping out on rage is still a loss. So, basically, without being a fight where intake peaks are predictable (e.g. massive AoE phases or something) you kinda just want to use the new Inner Rage almost on cooldown provided if you are above 40-50 Rage or so as a tank then simply opt not to use Heroic Strike if you don't get enough rage.

    Letting yourself ever cap out is a loss of potential damage, so the 1.5s cooldown simply allows you the option of dumping. If you wait until you hit 100, you have probably lost a lot of the potential Rage you could have had to dump into Heroic Strikes.
    True, I suppose one of the largest advantages is that you can keep IR up 50% of the time and dump if you need to and that you don't have to do it every 1.5 even if the option is available.

    Still don't see folks rage capping, maybe during heroism but @ 13% hit and 8% haste which is probably what you won't wanna go above you shouldn't really be rage capping at all.

    I will definitely enjoy IR during the beginning of fights as a tank though since I typically pre 100 rage so I will be able to dump into the boss with or without recklessness for the initial burst.

  6. #46
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    is anyone else kinda looking at the 30second CD on IR and thinking "huh"?

    I mean HS damage is reduced 20%, but assuming rage capping 50% of the time we can use it 50% more often

    doesn't that strangely kinda sorta equal to the same amount fo damage from HS over a given time frame?

  7. #47
    Good point, but remember the -20% is base HS, War Academy is also changing such that it's another -15% HS damage. So 35% less HS damage but if we have the rage we can use it 50% more. Fury/Arms usually won't have the rage but prot could end up with about the same overall HS damage.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    is anyone else kinda looking at the 30second CD on IR and thinking "huh"?

    I mean HS damage is reduced 20%, but assuming rage capping 50% of the time we can use it 50% more often

    doesn't that strangely kinda sorta equal to the same amount fo damage from HS over a given time frame?
    If you're raged capped 50% of the time, wouldn't it be better be to change hit to crit and make BT/RB/Slam/fewer HS hit harder?
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loganisis View Post
    If you're raged capped 50% of the time, wouldn't it be better be to change hit to crit and make BT/RB/Slam/fewer HS hit harder?
    Thats what I was trying to say. You won't use inner rage for heroic strike because gearing to have that much rage will be a DPS decrease vs gearing in a way that gives you less rage but pumps your other stats. Cleave is still a tossup but that should actually be useful unless Cleave is nerfed so hard that it becomes a DPS loss on 3 targets vs single target standard rotations.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loganisis View Post
    If you're raged capped 50% of the time, wouldn't it be better be to change hit to crit and make BT/RB/Slam/fewer HS hit harder?
    Probably.

    But I'm Prot/Prot so I wouldn't.

    I think the problem is that Fury and Prot have massively different Gearings based around their rage mechanics. Prot actively reforges out of hit, Fury will pretty much take Hit over anything else until it gets a decent rage gen. trying to make both use the same tools to dump is not going to be viable. Prot can easily live with the current IR active for 99% of an encounter. Fury Cannot. Prot is practically HSing on CD, Fury isn't their either waiting for a BT proc or replacing a GCD tied ability.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    Inner Rage
    "Whenever you reach 75 Rage or more, your Heroic Strike and Cleave cooldowns are reset and your next Heroic Strike or Cleave does 15% more damage, but costs 50% more Rage"
    Passive
    I dislike the new Inner rage and this above would be a lovely replacement for a button I often forget to hit. Something no-one seems to have picked up on with this design is that it's also a bit of compensation for letting you nearly cap rage.

    Also just to add I quite like having an off GCD cleave/hstrike, I feel clever using 5/6 abilities in under a second.

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