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Thread: Inner Rage Redesign

  1. #1
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    Inner Rage Redesign

    Inner Rage has been redesigned. It now reduces the cooldown on Heroic Strike and Cleave by 50% (to 1.5 second) for the next 15 seconds. 1-minute cooldown. It still cannot be used during Deadly Calm. This ability was originally designed to help warriors with rage capping, but the Heroic Strike and rage normalization changes seem to have solved that problem on their own. This new design will still allow warriors to burn off excess rage faster, at their discretion
    This is move in the wrong direction if you ask me, instead of an on demand way to burn rage this moves it more towards a dps CD.

    Instead of having a second rage dumping mechanic this seems to reward you for filling that rage bar once a minute to burn it off.

    Perhaps the percentage based buff from inner rage on live is causing scaling issues somewhere.
    If this is meant to be an on demand rage dump when HS isnt enough why the one minute CD ?

    Forgive me if this seems like a gut reaction.
    Finally came to use and love inner rage. For me its does exactly whats advertised in raids. 5mans it has become a quality of life button, allowing me to pick and choose what to fire off instead of fire off everything ya can while keeping enough for shield bash.

    I really hope they look at Inner Rage again, and put some more thought into their redesign.

  2. #2
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    Imo it makes it more useful than it is now. Something you could pop for aoe trash since our aoe got nerfed big time.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorc View Post
    instead of an on demand way to burn rage this moves it more towards a dps CD.
    Although I still don't buy into the idea of a "resource dump" in the first place - the new IR is miles ahead of the old one.

    It's still an on-demand rage burn - VERY similar to what we've had before 4.0. Too much rage? Pop IR and spam HS - just like the good ole days. Getting low on rage? Stop hitting HS - just like the good ole days.

    The current implemtation of IR requires you to modify your rotation while it's active and/or setup cancelaura macros so you don't rage starve yourself and net a DPS loss, instead of a DPS gain. Although I'm not sure it's going to work out the way they want for Prot Warriors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bung View Post
    Imo it makes it more useful than it is now. Something you could pop for aoe trash since our aoe got nerfed big time.
    A 5-6% loss is big time?
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  4. #4
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    I re-read the patch notes:

    "Cleave damage has been reduced by 20%."
    "War Academy no longer buffs Heroic Strike or Cleave"

    So doesn't that mean more than a 5-6% loss of cleave damage? I'm no math wiz but my assumption was a 35% damage reduction.
    Last edited by Bung; 01-14-2011 at 12:38 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bung View Post
    I re-read the patch notes:

    "Cleave damage has been reduced by 20%."
    "War Academy no longer buffs Heroic Strike or Cleave"

    So doesn't that mean more than a 5-6% loss of cleave damage? I'm no math wiz but my assumption was a 35% damage reduction.
    Yes, it is a 32% nerf to Cleave (.8 * .85) , but that's not what you said. You just said, "our ae". Unless you use only Cleave on for AE, you have other damage sources that are not being nerfed (yet).

    Assuming Cleave makes up for about 20% of damage done in an AE scenario.
    .2 * .32 = .064 = 6.4%

    If Cleave is more than 20% of your damage in AE, it will be a larger hit for you.

    edit for mathz
    Last edited by Andenthal; 01-14-2011 at 04:38 PM. Reason: bad math
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  6. #6
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    I'd rather see Inner Rage switched with Deadly Calm. I don't feel that I am missing a tool to deal with excess rage, but something to help the dry spots would be very welcome. Then they can give arms something else to make up for the warbringer changes.

  7. #7
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    I really don't like this change, i do not want to go back to having to spam HS even if it is for only 25% of the time. As a prot warrior i'd macroed this into most of my offensive abilities, being off the GCD and needing 75 rage to be usable it meant that i would automatically shift into high rage costs whenever i had sufficent rage, Of course i created counterpart /cancel aura macro's to most of the utility spells(Spell relflect, interupts, shouts), this hadd three very nice consequences; It made it much harder to cap rage, it made it alot easier to dump rage (HS costing 45 rage is a real dump), and if i managed to starve myself i could cancel aura and suddenly my bars lit up with available abilties.

    In my self centered arrogance I suspect the change is becuase it is quite easy to do the above and trivialise the use of Inner rage, and Rage management in general. though i suspect the new IR doesn't really solve that either, just means you have to spam more a qaurter of the time.

    How many warriors really think they are going to have the rage to continue their rotation and dump 10HSs in 15 secs?

    Like i posted on the PTR forums, please give us a Glyph to keep it functioning as it is now.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    How many warriors really think they are going to have the rage to continue their rotation and dump 10HSs in 15 secs?
    I actually quite like the idea, popping IR during a phase of heavy damage income (or outgoing for that matter) and since HS is no longer an 'on next attack' strike i simply don't hit it if i mess my regular rotation up while doing so. But if i manage to have endless rage it's an easy solution and nobody needs to bother with cancelaura macros in all his abilites.
    Dislike: rather long cooldown but to be fair if you're at 100 rage all the time there are other things Blizzard needs to address, not the cooldown of Inner Rage.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    How many warriors really think they are going to have the rage to continue their rotation and dump 10HSs in 15 secs?
    If it ends up being more DPS than using core abilities, yes.
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  10. #10
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    that's not exactly what i meant by continuing our rotation, but i damn hope it end up that way as then Blizz will prolly nerf it to the ground. its meant to be a speed up our rate of dumpage, not a something we save up rage so we can pop for a tps boost.

    I just don't see how IR is broken for prot warriors. could someone explain that?

  11. #11
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    It's not necessarily broken, it just requires doing some very complex mental gymnastics - along with cancelaura macros - to use it for maximum effect.

    Just as an example, currently using Inner Rage on Revenge is always worth it. 100% of the time. It costs you 2.5 rage for 15% more Revenge damage. That's an amazing tradeoff. Same for Shockwave and B&T Thunder Clap - the rage:damage efficiency on it is superb. If you are using it with those abilities, Inner Rage isn't a "rage dump" tool, because it's actually more efficient than some of your normal rotational stuff.

    Conversely, using it on Heroic Strike is almost never worth it - it costs you 15 rage for 15% more Heroic Strike damage. Not as amazing. It's very easy to bleed your rage bar dry doing this, too. This is probably more what they had in mind, but it's so horribly inefficient that it leaves you starved if incoming damage winds down even a little bit - 45 rage Heroic Strike suck you dry quick.

    This makes it pretty complex and really rewards /cancelaura Inner Rage macros and the manual dexterity of a virtuoso pianist, which is probably not what they had in mind.


    I think the new Inner Rage is bad too, though. They got rid of the WotLK Heroic Strike mechanics for a reason. Spamming 2+ buttons every 1.5s is not fun.

    Additionally, I think it's bad because they continue to treat Cleave as a rage dump. Cleave's not a rage dump all that often; it's a staple AOE threat ability, and even after the nerfs to it in 4.0.6 it will still be our most important AOE threat skill on groups of 2-4 mobs. Given that, they've basically just created a new AOE DPS cooldown, and if threat ever becomes a serious concern I don't really want to be waiting on Inner Rage between pulls.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahti View Post
    I think the new Inner Rage is bad too, though. They got rid of the WotLK Heroic Strike mechanics for a reason. Spamming 2+ buttons every 1.5s is not fun.
    I think most tanks are spamming the button anyway, because they have the rage to do it and they don't want to miss the CD. I know I'm in that situation pretty often.

  13. #13
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    I don't think its that complex, we have SO much rage that you basically put it up when you can, and then cancel it when you rage starve or use an ability with a rage cost that doesn't damage. I love it. Much better than spamming HS. and much easier to manage than having 15secs of super dumpage, I mean its pretty much fire and forget at this point. i don't have to worry about saving IR for the mega dump, wasting rage now becuase if i activate it i may get to use a couple of extra HS's off and then 10 secs of not back to back HSing, whereas later i may get 4 or 5 extra HS in.

    i defintely ain't a pianist with these chubby digits, I'm not saying IR is perfect as is, but that this IR change is a step in the wrong direction. I'm not spamming HS waiting for the CD. and if we are we should be using HS with IR.

    i think it may be better if they kept IR how is but changed the +15% dmg to +X% base AP that way we get a flat damgae increase rather than some super scaling freaky thing

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    I'd rather see Inner Rage switched with Deadly Calm. I don't feel that I am missing a tool to deal with excess rage, but something to help the dry spots would be very welcome. Then they can give arms something else to make up for the warbringer changes.
    Indeed. With the removal of Bloodrage, I would have much more appreciated Deadly Calm's mechanic as a core ability for dealing with Rage dry spells.

    I'm more of a fan of the 'new' Inner Rage than the old one...but I still feel like it's a poor mechanic.

    I thought the idea was to move away from having to spam the Heroic Strike button? It's bad enough that it's on a distinct GCD now...but having to maintain TWO 1.5s GCDs at the same time? Are they trying to cause carpal tunnel syndrome in all Prot Warriors or something?

    Oddly enough, I'm surprised they didn't go back to the automatic approach on this one. Something that automatically reduced the cooldown of Heroic Strike based on reaching max rage would be slightly more attractive--but it still feels like they're trying too hard to make the idea of the mechanic work even though it is neither proven nor needed.
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  15. #15
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    How about:

    Inner Rage
    "Whenever you reach 75 Rage or more, your Heroic Strike and Cleave cooldowns are reset and your next Heroic Strike or Cleave does 15% more damage, but costs 50% more Rage"
    Passive

    This would be on auto-cast, giving you extra HS/Cleave with the current Inner Rage buff
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  16. #16
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    Yeah, an ability that activates automatically is the best solution for a spell that has such a tight activation window as Inner Rage has at the moment.

    Every time I could use it I hit a skill a millisecond after that and I fall under 75 rage.

    Macroing would be a solution but first I think Blizzard doesn't like abilities that need macro support to be useful and I could not find a fitting macro solution for Inner Rage at all.
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  17. #17
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    Well for Inner Rage, I would say that you could macro it to Revenge & possibly Shockwave and then cancelaura-macros on everything else.
    The problem then becomes that you need 15-20 macros JUST to use 1 ability.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    How about:

    Inner Rage
    "Whenever you reach 75 Rage or more, your Heroic Strike and Cleave cooldowns are reset and your next Heroic Strike or Cleave does 15% more damage, but costs 50% more Rage"
    Passive

    This would be on auto-cast, giving you extra HS/Cleave with the current Inner Rage buff
    I like that. Basically almost exactly what they are trying to accomplish in a far less annoying way. :P

    (Could additionally have some cap if you needed, like 'This effect only occur every X seconds' or something.)
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  19. #19
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    If it activates automatically they cannot make it consume more rage. There are too many situations where you would rather have the extra rage since its not like rage gain is very spikey or fast unless you are seriously hasted. Inner Rage was total garbage before for this reason and almost only utilized to exploit the cost of Execute or to be quickly cancelled before another special was performed. This new iteration of Inner Rage does not suffer from these problems at least.

    What bothers me about this change is they go changing our on next hit attacks so we don't need to spam abilities like a madman and now they are giving us a 1.5 second ability off the GCD mixed with a 3 second ability. C'mon really? Can't we get a bit less of an annoying rotation where a 200-300 ping isn't enough to severely impact your dps because the clipping is so perfect.

    They went telling us how the new meta game would involve actually not having to hit an ability every single GCD whereas in Fury I'm finding myself not even having enough GCDs to actually do that when Bloodsurge starts proccing alot....

    Theres so many more creative things they can do. They could make something like Vengeance where if you gain rage that puts you over 100 it temporarily boosts your attack power but stacks/destacks similarly to Vengeance. They could make it temporarily decrease our GCD so we can spam a few abilities really quickly and dump the rage. They could make it store up rage in some secondary pool that we could pop when we are rage starved.

    Instead of looking for solutions that not only fix the problem but also help remedy other issues we have as a class they just stuff us with spamming more buttons faster.
    Last edited by Lightmgl; 01-17-2011 at 12:45 AM.

  20. #20
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    You can use Inner Rage in Def stance?
    I never had longish(more than 10s) phases of too much rage so I'd even consider hotkeying old Inner Rage.

    I would also very much prefer WarTotem's idea. There's no issue with reducing 3s CDs to 1.5s CDs. Any of you guys actually check is HS/Cleave is off CD before you hit that button/scroll that mouse wheel? Anyone? I don't track that CD. If I have excess rage, I use my mousewheel. Old habits, I guess.

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