Incoming Druid Tank dps nerf and Protection Warrior comparison and rotation changes.

[Petninja]

Heroic Leeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap
(although it's much more restrictive *cough*cough*)

Was already mentioned in the post I quoted :P.

[Zantam]

For reference, I was talking about Intervene. Heroic Leap is another awesome tool of course.

And before you start to say it's not "the same" mobility, I highly encourage you to imagine what it does on Chimaeron burn phase (buys you at least one blow), or on phase 2 (air/earth) of the TAC. Or on Atramedes airphase.

[Kojiyama]

Warriors do have a lot of mobility, for sure. In playing my Druid instead of my Warrior, I definitely notice the loss of mobility. The fact that Feral Charge is the only real tool (Stampeding Roar is a joke) and costs Rage is quite awkward compared to bouncing around like mad on my Warrior.

(It is worth keeping in mind that Protection Warriors are losing Intercept as an option next patch, though--as it will share a cooldown with Charge. So Charge + Intervene + Heroic Leap is the toolset. Although it's always fun to toss in a Leap of Faith or two in there and be a Warrior ping-pong ball!)

Sadly, I've been affected by the 'no test realms show up' bug, so I can't really confirm about the armor changes on PTR.

[Domathan]

@Koji
Shared CD of charge and intercept is bound to the Talent Juggernaut (Not Warbringer).
Therefore Fury and Prot warriors can stil intercept around as before.

[Gameforreal]

1)that we can not remove fear anymore will suuuuuuuuck.
2)That we can use Warstomp in form is awesome!

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1) That we lose 17% dmg on mangle will succccck!.
2) That we gain 78% armor changing to bearform will ROCK!.

__
1) That we can shift out form to remove root, will it matter as tank!?
2) Haste wont be useless for tanking anymore will awesome! (its on our tier items!)

Haste + Laci should equal more mangle procs yea? i cant w8 to see. =)

I dont feel nerfed, i feel changed? I there to live longer, not win dps meters. As long as i can keep agro, i couldnt care less for my dps while tanking!.

/Game

[Kojiyama]

Haste is still quite useless for Bears. You can stack 100% Haste and barely get a 3-4% damage increase through Lacerate.

You'll get a few more Berserk procs, but generally it's a pretty failed concept to try to make Haste attractive just by making Lacerate scale without making Lacerate's DoT much, much more powerful. It's still not going to be a very useful stat. They need to try to find other alternative ways of making the stat work for Bears.

(Although, on that topic, Haste is pretty much terrible for Protection Warriors as well...but at least its not on many pieces.)

The fear removal does suck a bit, and Warstomp only affects one out of four Druid classes... so Bear Druids are getting some nerfs that are really quite unneeded and silly. (At the least, they could make it so Fear is only broken in Bear instead of Bear and Cat.)

[Gameforreal]

Would be nice to keep the Berserker to remove fear while in bear form.

I hate the way Lacerate is now, used to be decent DPS, now it is the thing that procs mangle CD rdy again...

Haste.: Is resigned to help us with AoE packs or have i misunderstood?.


Still... its not a big deal tbh =)

[Zantam]

What I hate most of all since Cataclysm is our crappy aoe gameplay. We got a new spell which is basically as useful as if Swipe's cooldown was on 3 seconds instead of 6. Yeah, if you factor in the usefulness of Stampeding Roar and the mushrooms, you get the picture: we virtually had nothing useful out of the patch.

I just don't see why Thrash and Swipe work this way. Here is what I would like to see:
Thrash on an 8 to 10 second CD, does aoe bleed and applies mangle debuff to all targets if talented. Generates a crapton of threat. Is the go-to spell for pulling initial aoe aggro.
Swipe on a 3 secs CD, no threat modifier, does moderate aoe damage. Acts as a second spell. Use lacerate between each Swipe.

Simple gameplay, 3 buttons, still involves tabbing to an extent.

EDIT: for the rest of the analysis, I pretty much agree with everything Kojiyama said.

[Elysian]

Can I just say that a post like this brought a tear to my eye? I may be the only one, but I never thought I'd see the day that prot warriors are getting called out for doing too much DPS and not getting enough nerfage.

[Mjoldir]

aye i remember the days in ulduar when prot warriors were being left out of centent as tanks for the HM bosses with insane enrage timers because of thier dps. I generally didnt have a problem with that though the same fights demanded alot of movement and high TPS which we excelled at... good times.

i'm just tired of the whole nerf one class buff another rotation that's been going on. Cata presented the chance to bring all 4 tanking classes into balance in terms of output and input whilst still being unique and they havn't taken it which is a shame.

[Katarn]

I'm going through this a few days behind, so I'll have to correct things as I see them.

It also makes Lacerate inferior to swipe damage for single target, and even though lacerate has a decent threat modifier its going to drop behind an aoe ability on our priorities list.

This will not happen. It will push Thrash ahead of Lacerate at a lower AP level. Swipe will not ever be ahead of Lacerate. Ever.

- We have by a small margin the smallest of the tanking classes Health Pools

Because we don't stack Stamina, or at least shouldn't. We still have the largest Stamina->HP modifier.

With the upcoming Nerfs to druids dps that niche is gone and although we have some nice magical damage mitigation in the form of 2 cds and 6% passive from speccing i can't think of any possible scenario where bringing a bear tank to your raid will benefit you for an encounter over another tanking class.

If your Bear is just flat out better. "Bring the player not the class" applies to tanks as well.

My guess is that, in reality, any downward adjustment for Bears should have been in the realm of 5-10% and Mangle and Maul should have bore almost all the weight of the change.

I do agree with this. Mangle and Maul are the two biggest offenders when it comes to Bear DPS. They should've been targetted exclusively imo.

Bear AoE is definitely sufficient to hold threat. Personally I'd be happy if Thrash's bleed was no longer mitigated by Armor. That would pretty much instantly solve all of the problems.