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Thread: Need Advice - Replacing player.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    Need Advice - Replacing player.

    So here's my issue, I currently have a player in my guild who isn't exactly bad, he's average if anything. He's doing mediocre healing though. 20 to 25k HPS below the other two healers, and has a huge issue with the English Language, not only is English not his second language, nor his third, it's his fourth. So far we haven't had that big of an issue, but we're not really doing heroic kills either where there's more chaos and more on the spot calls. I'm worried one of these times when he has to do something major or specific to save the raid from a wipe, he won't understand what I said in the heat of the moment.

    But more importantly, I found another druid that's just flat out way better. Double if not tripling his heals and has a lot more experience. As well doesn't have the issue of a language barrier.

    What's the best way to replace the current druid after the raid week is done?

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Oklahoma
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    Personally, I feel everyone deserves to know their fate and have some control. Maybe my opinion is a little care-bear, but I think it's the "fair" thing to do.

    1. Tell him what's wrong. Help as well as you can. If you see he's not even using Wild Growth, point that out in the "what's wrong" conversation. Having said that, it's his toon, not yours. I'm not saying you need to go read up on how to be a world top 100 resto druid and advise him. You need to tell him why you are concerned about keeping him in the group and IF you can find anything specifically wrong, include that info.

    2. Give him a reasonable amount of time to show improvement. What is "reasonable" varies. For this issue, my personal feeling would be probably at least two weeks as long as you see improvement each time. For instance, if you see 10k improvement on week one, then that gives him a shot to get another 10k next week and be at the 20k you said he's short.

    3. Be supportive. If he needs to run a bunch of heroics for practice on methods/reforging/tricks whatever that he has read up on and you can go, then go with him. Help him as long as he is putting in the effort to help himself. Not only will this possibly help him, it is team building, loyalty building and gives you more time to assess him and his improvements...or lack thereof.

    4. If you need to sit him after giving him a fair shot of knowing why and having a chance to improve himself, tell him what it would take for him to earn his spot back. Give him a goal he can work towards. He may not ever try or may not get there even if he does, but at least that is HIS fault for not taking action and no blame is yours for just abandoning him.
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    4
    Thank you so much for the advice! I'll take that all into consideration. I sadly, have more information on the subject.

    1.) He has contacted another healer in our group and asked what was wrong and we had just had a conversation about what was wrong a few hours prior, so we had all the info at hand of exactly what was wrong.

    2.) I was going to let him finish out the raid week, as we need to get into heroics as soon as possible, doing 21k HPS on a heroic fight is not going to cut it. But I always had the intention of giving him enough time to correct his issues.

    3.) We're trying to be a little more strict about that, I personally feel that having joined this guild his 'practice' should be done, none the less I'll offer that.

    4.) That is what I was looking for most, thank you very much.

    --

    New info: He just told the other healer that, he clicks his spells, doesn't have any addons to track anything, and uses just regular raid frames. He maintains no key binds, and I believe is a keyboard turner. The only addons he has is BigWigs and WeakAuras because I demanded everyone in the guild to have those two addons.

    What do I do with this? He's a good guy, has potential, but I can't teach this kind of stuff. I can't teach him how to keybind appropriately and effectively. It's just not possible. Lastly, the language barrier I fear is going to be something major in the future we just can't have. We can't wipe at 3% because he gets thrown into the construct at the last second of Heroic Amber-Shaper just to miss his interrupt and wipe the tanks.

  4. #4
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    Marina del Rey, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifuedition View Post
    Personally, I feel everyone deserves to know their fate and have some control. Maybe my opinion is a little care-bear, but I think it's the "fair" thing to do.

    1. Tell him what's wrong. Help as well as you can. If you see he's not even using Wild Growth, point that out in the "what's wrong" conversation. Having said that, it's his toon, not yours. I'm not saying you need to go read up on how to be a world top 100 resto druid and advise him. You need to tell him why you are concerned about keeping him in the group and IF you can find anything specifically wrong, include that info.

    2. Give him a reasonable amount of time to show improvement. What is "reasonable" varies. For this issue, my personal feeling would be probably at least two weeks as long as you see improvement each time. For instance, if you see 10k improvement on week one, then that gives him a shot to get another 10k next week and be at the 20k you said he's short.

    3. Be supportive. If he needs to run a bunch of heroics for practice on methods/reforging/tricks whatever that he has read up on and you can go, then go with him. Help him as long as he is putting in the effort to help himself. Not only will this possibly help him, it is team building, loyalty building and gives you more time to assess him and his improvements...or lack thereof.

    4. If you need to sit him after giving him a fair shot of knowing why and having a chance to improve himself, tell him what it would take for him to earn his spot back. Give him a goal he can work towards. He may not ever try or may not get there even if he does, but at least that is HIS fault for not taking action and no blame is yours for just abandoning him.
    I'll take the other stance on this.

    You've got a recruit (I'm assuming that's what your second paragraph means...you have found a guy who's better and is willing and able to make your raid)...play him instead. If you're holding back your raid to hand hold a guy who's not cutting it, I don't see why you wouldn't just replace him.

    You're probably annoying your other two healers by having them carry the guy...you didn't mention if you'd talked to them about it, but it is probably worth looking into if you haven't.

    You're making the raiding experience worse for 9 people for the sake of one guy...this doesn't make sense. It can't be unclear to him that he's 20-25k behind. It won't be a shock when he gets benched...especially if you've got a new resto druid sitting in guild chat now.

    Just make the switch. Invite the new guy to the raid, tell the old guy why he's being replaced.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravy
    Any plan that doesn't call for the end of the world or the extinction of the human race isn't a good plan

  5. #5
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    Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by locknlol View Post
    Thank you so much for the advice! I'll take that all into consideration. I sadly, have more information on the subject.

    1.) He has contacted another healer in our group and asked what was wrong and we had just had a conversation about what was wrong a few hours prior, so we had all the info at hand of exactly what was wrong.

    2.) I was going to let him finish out the raid week, as we need to get into heroics as soon as possible, doing 21k HPS on a heroic fight is not going to cut it. But I always had the intention of giving him enough time to correct his issues.

    3.) We're trying to be a little more strict about that, I personally feel that having joined this guild his 'practice' should be done, none the less I'll offer that.

    4.) That is what I was looking for most, thank you very much.

    --

    New info: He just told the other healer that, he clicks his spells, doesn't have any addons to track anything, and uses just regular raid frames. He maintains no key binds, and I believe is a keyboard turner. The only addons he has is BigWigs and WeakAuras because I demanded everyone in the guild to have those two addons.

    What do I do with this? He's a good guy, has potential, but I can't teach this kind of stuff. I can't teach him how to keybind appropriately and effectively. It's just not possible. Lastly, the language barrier I fear is going to be something major in the future we just can't have. We can't wipe at 3% because he gets thrown into the construct at the last second of Heroic Amber-Shaper just to miss his interrupt and wipe the tanks.
    My stance, except even more so with this info.

    If you're feeling bad about it, let him know that he's more than welcome to apply back for a raid spot when he's cleaned up his game, gotten some addons, started keybinding and generally becomes and asset instead of a hinderance to the raid.

    If you don't take care of the situation it will almost certainly lead to resentment from your non-terrible raiders and make them start looking elsewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravy
    Any plan that doesn't call for the end of the world or the extinction of the human race isn't a good plan

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    5,593
    Quote Originally Posted by locknlol View Post
    Thank you so much for the advice! I'll take that all into consideration. I sadly, have more information on the subject.

    1.) He has contacted another healer in our group and asked what was wrong and we had just had a conversation about what was wrong a few hours prior, so we had all the info at hand of exactly what was wrong.

    2.) I was going to let him finish out the raid week, as we need to get into heroics as soon as possible, doing 21k HPS on a heroic fight is not going to cut it. But I always had the intention of giving him enough time to correct his issues.

    3.) We're trying to be a little more strict about that, I personally feel that having joined this guild his 'practice' should be done, none the less I'll offer that.

    4.) That is what I was looking for most, thank you very much.

    --

    New info: He just told the other healer that, he clicks his spells, doesn't have any addons to track anything, and uses just regular raid frames. He maintains no key binds, and I believe is a keyboard turner. The only addons he has is BigWigs and WeakAuras because I demanded everyone in the guild to have those two addons.

    What do I do with this? He's a good guy, has potential, but I can't teach this kind of stuff. I can't teach him how to keybind appropriately and effectively. It's just not possible. Lastly, the language barrier I fear is going to be something major in the future we just can't have. We can't wipe at 3% because he gets thrown into the construct at the last second of Heroic Amber-Shaper just to miss his interrupt and wipe the tanks.
    He only downloaded the addons because you told him to and then clearly did nothing with them. It will be a long haul to get him to get used to key bindings and moving with a mouse. The "potential" is barely realizable. I think you'll do him a bigger favor by replacing him honestly, and yourselves too. That shit is just bad and at this point in the game stupid shit like "BUT IF I MOVE WITH MY MOUSE, HOW DO I CLICK MY SPELLS?!?!" shouldn't be tolerated in a heroic raiding guild if you intend on taking yourselves seriously.

    I'm with Ion. Replace him.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    You shouldn't have anyone teaching anyone to play their class if you're serious about HC raiding. You have a replacement ditch him.
    Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
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    Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    4
    The question is: how

    The option to replace him, is a no brainer, and was sealed when I learned he is a clicker. What is the political way of doing it without seeming like a complete asshole. I can be if I want to be, I'd just rather not if it's avoidable.

  9. #9
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    Marina del Rey, CA
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    It's not being an asshole to bench someone for lack of performance.

    You don't have to tell him "Sweet Liquid Jesus man you're TOO TERRIBLE TO RAID!", but you can explain that his performance hasn't been what you expect from your raiders, that you had a conversation with the other healers and are going to try going in another direction (your new recruit) and that if and when he's gotten himself up to speed that he is welcome to reapply.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravy
    Any plan that doesn't call for the end of the world or the extinction of the human race isn't a good plan

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Karlsruhe/Germany
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ion View Post
    It's not being an asshole to bench someone for lack of performance.

    You don't have to tell him "Sweet Liquid Jesus man you're TOO TERRIBLE TO RAID!", but you can explain that his performance hasn't been what you expect from your raiders, that you had a conversation with the other healers and are going to try going in another direction (your new recruit) and that if and when he's gotten himself up to speed that he is welcome to reapply.
    Do what he said.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    4
    Update - He rage quit the guild when he was sat. Problem solved.

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