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Thread: GC Responds to the Heroic Dungeon QQ

  1. #1
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    GC Responds to the Heroic Dungeon QQ

    This is really very well stated and makes a lot of sense.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2053469#blog

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    And now they're planning on nerfing many of the defining mechanics of the heroic bosses.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
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    Like in SFK the first boss no longer does Mend Rotten Flesh?

    THAT WAS WHAT MADE THE FIGHT HARD!
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  4. #4
    For the casual / non-raider I understand. Pugging a group takes 30 minutes, then you get in only to find the group is stuck on Ozruk. Tank leaves, eps leave and you're standing there with the healer to re-q. Rinse and repeat. Few of the mechanics required skill sets an average player would not have, but some were also 100% unforgiving and required communication and coordination you only find in skilled players or people who communicate very well.

    For myself I've enjoyed the content and the required learning curve. But I'm only one of the 15 million players. I can totally see newer players or those who are more casual throwing in the towel because of the the above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MellvarTank View Post
    Like in SFK the first boss no longer does Mend Rotten Flesh?

    THAT WAS WHAT MADE THE FIGHT HARD!
    Amen to that. If they want to make it easier, they could have just reduced the healing done by it a little. Having a boss fight where there is an ability you have to interrupt isn't a new concept. They could have also tweaked it such that it would be on cooldown after his AoE heal so that a single interrupting class could handle all interrupts. There are definately alternatives to turning the fight into a joke.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

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    Even with raid content cleared I still have to do daily heroics because of blizzard's blatant bias for 25man raiders. I'd rather not spend 40 minutes a day every day(more than a farm clear) for some trashy 70 VP. And that's with full AoE in 359 geared dps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gacktt View Post
    Even with raid content cleared I still have to do daily heroics because of blizzard's blatant bias for 25man raiders. I'd rather not spend 40 minutes a day every day(more than a farm clear) for some trashy 70 VP. And that's with full AoE in 359 geared dps.
    So don't. You miss out on 490 valor points per week, which will get you 1 new piece of gear per month. If you really don't enjoy heroics, why would you spend 40 minutes per night, or 20 hours per month doing something you really don't enjoy for a chance to get maybe 30 stamina that you'll get in no time from raiding anyway? Just don't do it. Don't trivialize the heroic mechanics for those of us who enjoy them
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
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    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
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    Quote Originally Posted by MellvarTank View Post
    Like in SFK the first boss no longer does Mend Rotten Flesh?

    THAT WAS WHAT MADE THE FIGHT HARD!
    I was equally disappointed about this change.
    -------------------------------------
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    Quote Originally Posted by JollyWarrior View Post
    I was equally disappointed about this change.
    Try going in there with a warlock, shadow priest, holy paladin, bear tank and a mage and tell me how fun that fight is...

  10. #10
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    Have the warlock pull out their felhunter, or have the mage interrupt the Stay of Execution and the bear interrupt the mend rotten flesh each time, or use the holy pally to interrupt the stay of execution (HoJ does that, right?) and the bear do the mend rotten flesh. There are so many ways interrupts can be handled with that group.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
    I'm empty and aching and I don't know why
    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
    They've all gone to look for America

  11. #11
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    HoJ isn't an interrupt anymore, afaik. And you're just letting Pain and Suffering fire off in your scenario.

    Yeah, it might be possible to do if your group isn't retarded...good luck getting that group doing it right in a pug.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nserafini View Post
    For the casual / non-raider I understand. Pugging a group takes 30 minutes, then you get in only to find the group is stuck on Ozruk. Tank leaves, eps leave and you're standing there with the healer to re-q. Rinse and repeat. Few of the mechanics required skill sets an average player would not have, but some were also 100% unforgiving and required communication and coordination you only find in skilled players or people who communicate very well.

    For myself I've enjoyed the content and the required learning curve. But I'm only one of the 15 million players. I can totally see newer players or those who are more casual throwing in the towel because of the the above.
    I felt that way with Ozruk. He is unforgiving as all hell. The changes to him seem like enough to make it easier but not so much to make it faceroll like the SFK mending flesh change.

    The beauty Change I'm ok with too. Relying on having 3 CC in your group was kind of lame.
    -------------------------------------
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ion View Post
    HoJ isn't an interrupt anymore, afaik. And you're just letting Pain and Suffering fire off in your scenario.

    Yeah, it might be possible to do if your group isn't retarded...good luck getting that group doing it right in a pug.
    I always just let pain and suffering fire off. It can be dispelled, and isn't a threat. Retarded groups should have to learn not to be retarded to advance. Removing mechanic that create the possibility of failure doesn't make a fight fun. It makes it boring and trivial. There are very very few group compositions, if any, that lack 2 viable interrupts, which is all you need for this fight. Some groups have multiple interrupts on one class, like a death knight. Hell, in the coming patch, even holy paladins will have Rebuke. Taking away Mend Rotten flesh basically makes this fight a 1 interrupt fight without having to react quickly to it, which takes a lot of the fun out of the fight.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
    I'm empty and aching and I don't know why
    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
    They've all gone to look for America

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reev View Post
    Have the warlock pull out their felhunter, or have the mage interrupt the Stay of Execution and the bear interrupt the mend rotten flesh each time, or use the holy pally to interrupt the stay of execution (HoJ does that, right?) and the bear do the mend rotten flesh. There are so many ways interrupts can be handled with that group.
    But that requires thinking outside the box and straying away from the norm...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JollyWarrior View Post
    I felt that way with Ozruk. He is unforgiving as all hell. The changes to him seem like enough to make it easier but not so much to make it faceroll like the SFK mending flesh change.

    The beauty Change I'm ok with too. Relying on having 3 CC in your group was kind of lame.
    It's not much different than the change to Baron Ashbury...except in the case of Beauty you could just kill mob(s) if you don't have the required CC.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JollyWarrior View Post
    I felt that way with Ozruk. He is unforgiving as all hell. The changes to him seem like enough to make it easier but not so much to make it faceroll like the SFK mending flesh change.

    The beauty Change I'm ok with too. Relying on having 3 CC in your group was kind of lame.

    Who needs 3 CC? I've done it successfully with just keeping one CCed and tanking the rest.

    Overall thats the main issue GC was talking about. About each encounter being a puzzle to solve. Heroics are there for people who want to think critically and get through above average difficulty situations. For everyone else theres normal modes.

  17. #17
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    I am all about challenge, what I don't enjoy is a wall. 5 man heroics are roughly equivalent to 5 man raiding at this point. So for a group not used to running together this means a wipefest until you eventually get it. Then another and another. It also means that when you get a group with dps ranging 5k-8k and I am having an off day or a streaming add nightmare (hello first boss's spiders in Stonecore, or stupid purple trog in Grim Batol) we don't even get the first damned boss down after a solid hour.

    That's cool on one hand, I don't mind working with people and fine tuning our approach to be successful, on the other, I don't have 4 hours to devote to a single fuggin heroic. It just stops being fun and starts being work. My gf asks why do I do it if I am not having a good time,
    "Because it is there, because there is nothing else, because I have invested YEARS of my f'in life to this game, because I, in theory am pretty good at what I do and don't like not succeeding." Who knows.

  18. #18
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    They nerfed Swell damage in Throne of the Tides... /cry. That was fun when we didn't have any means of dealing with it and had to learn to LoS it for the double pull at the end of the hall.

    So many good times being nerfed.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caric View Post
    I am having an off day or a streaming add nightmare (hello first boss's spiders in Stonecore, or stupid purple trog in Grim Batol) we don't even get the first damned boss down after a solid hour.
    You don't have to tank any of those mobs. They're all meant to be DPSed down without tanks.

    Asking people to interrupt two abilities in a fight isn't too much to ask on Ashbury. Ozruk's shatter is tuned somewhat unforgivingly at the moment, but you can complete that fight with one dps, one tank, and a healer alive, so even if 2/3 dps have no pulse and die to shatters, you can beat it with the remaining folks.

    Right now, there's just enough challenge to keep it interesting. Now they'll remove that challenge too.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
    I'm empty and aching and I don't know why
    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
    They've all gone to look for America

  20. #20
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    Why does this come as any sort of surprise, I'd say most things come as fixes, but this is no different then the slow scaling back of difficulty that blizzard does for every tier of content, even heroics. Did people already forget their experimental scale back method of a 30% damage aura in ICC? This happens EVERY tier, and people need to stop worrying about it. The game, inevitably gets easier, for the people who have been doing it since it first gets released, this is to provide the necessary challenge to the people who hit the content first, and then once it becomes trivial to those players, it gets made easier so that a broader spectrum of players can enjoy the content. Are we really drumming up this argument again after it was beaten to death in naxx, then ulduar, then togc, then icc? really?

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