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Thread: Is it my fault?

  1. #1
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    Is it my fault?

    Ok guys, first things first: i'm new here, at least new at posting, because i've been reading your guides, watching your videos for a long time, this is an awesome community indeed, thanks for all the hard work you've been doing and sharing with players.
    I decided to post my issues because i don't know what else to do. I saw way too many videos on youtube, i saw plenty of chars of other players and try to spot the differences from mine and bla bla bla, something is just wrong.
    I'm a holy priest healer, and you can see my char here:

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...thiel/advanced

    I'm not going into the discussion "omg the heroic dungeons are too hard" and bla bla, because everyone knows that, its useless to discusss it.
    I've raised my reputations to get the best items i can, i found the best gems and enchants too, i heard a lot of people talking about "hey you have to get at least 2.000 spirit", well there's 2525 there, plus the flask of flowing water which grants me another 300 spirit, and the heartsong enchant and so on. Basically i try to get spirit in everything. Does that help me? in normals yes. in heroics? no.

    I've done normal dungeons way too many times to increase my reputations, and i can say i'm overgeared for it. in 99% of the cases we won't wipe, unless i catch the other 1% when they really mess around. So this was a sign i was ready to move onto heroics.

    Ok, deadmines is just 1 example. I cast renew on the tank and chackra/heal and POM before the pull. then i keep casting heal nonstop, since my spirit gives my mana faster than i can spend. Then i got shocked the tank looses health way too fast for this. Its just not working, forget it. So i start casting 1 flash heal, and 1 greater heal. then i cast another heal or 2...but its not working again, so here we go flash flash greater and so on.
    A few moments later i'm OOM, everyone dies and i hear "healer, you suck".

    Then i get sad. I prepared myself, i worked hard, i got my spirit flasks to have a brutal amount of spirit on me, but casting flash heals all the time is just nonsense. POM feels like doesnt do anything at all, COH and POH sure do something but they're not fast and good enough. And in the end of the day, i hear that from other players "go learn to heal".

    I mean, honestly.. go learn to heal? that's why i'm here asking for your help guys. I'm wiping in 99% of the heroics, this isn't too normal, is it? I mean, i know all my spells, i know all my talents, i know everything about my char, how come i feel i can't play at all!

    Then someone says: Hey why don't you spec shadow, go make some dps in heroics, get some better gear then you heal.
    Right...i've done that, problem is, in the first few packs or even the first boss, they notice my dps sucks...and then they hit the kick button, and i found i waited 40 min for getting kicked.

    Bad news is: i can't get better items unless i do heroics. Is something wrong with my gems/enchants? Chackra/heal/renew was super effective in normals, what about in heroics? what can i use? flash heal all the time?

    Thanks in advance for all the feedback you can give to me guys. I really appreciate it, and sorry for my english

  2. #2
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    Sounds like you had a tank too undergeared for the instance or they were not using proper amount of CC.
    I see nothing terribly wrong with your spec. and your gear is better than mine lol.
    I had np healing DM.
    Also nothing wrong with your starting heals but when crap hit the fan sounds like you may have panicked and lapsed into old wrath ways.
    Make sure POM is up at all times and if the tank dies in the 3 seconds it takes to cast GH then "it's not you"; "it's the Tank".
    If people fail to use CC or tank pulls more than you think he can handle point it out.
    If you get "your not healing enough" post recount; everytime I have gotten that posted recount which showed I was healing over 5k!
    "It's always the Healer's fault; unless it's the Tanks fault, just ask the DPS'er in purples doing 5k!"

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uranos7 View Post
    Sounds like you had a tank too undergeared for the instance or they were not using proper amount of CC.
    I see nothing terribly wrong with your spec. and your gear is better than mine lol.
    I had np healing DM.
    Also nothing wrong with your starting heals but when crap hit the fan sounds like you may have panicked and lapsed into old wrath ways.
    Make sure POM is up at all times and if the tank dies in the 3 seconds it takes to cast GH then "it's not you"; "it's the Tank".
    If people fail to use CC or tank pulls more than you think he can handle point it out.
    If you get "your not healing enough" post recount; everytime I have gotten that posted recount which showed I was healing over 5k!
    Thanks a bunch for the feedback. I got in various situations you know? if i get a good tank, i get terrible dps and then i have to heal them forever and there's no way i can last that long, and sometimes i get good dps and crapy tank. You know, sometimes i just turn off wow, because ppl can be really rude and knock someone's fun. i was only wondering if it was indeed because of me or my gear

  4. #4
    Ok, deadmines is just 1 example. I cast renew on the tank and chackra/heal and POM before the pull. then i keep casting heal nonstop, since my spirit gives my mana faster than i can spend. Then i got shocked the tank looses health way too fast for this. Its just not working, forget it. So i start casting 1 flash heal, and 1 greater heal. then i cast another heal or 2...but its not working again, so here we go flash flash greater and so on.
    Here's the thing...Heal by itself is pretty much never going to keep a normal tank up if he's tanking something that's challenging at all.

    So what's happening is this:
    Tank engages, you're spamming Heal.
    Incoming damage is greatly outpacing Heal, so now the tank is getting low so you panic and Flash Heal.
    Flash Heal nom noms all your mana, you OOM, people die.

    What you'll have to do is better anticipate incoming damage and start throwing Greater Heals out there. The HPM is very close to Heal, but the HPS is way higher.

    As for Flash Heal...ugh. I don't think the Flash Heal for any class is very desirable to cast at all. You're going to OOM yourself pretty fast with that thing.

  5. #5
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    I'm guessing these are pug's? The people you get in pugs can be hit and miss, I had one undergeared tank trying to chain pull HC grim batol with no cc the other day for example. It wasn't to bad as I out gear the place but was no quicker as I needed to have mana breaks. (which he was ignoring until i started life gripping him back pre pull).

    Anyway, firstly I noticed you mentioning flash heal being your go to spell when someone takes a lot of damage, it shouldn't be a default reaction to mash flash heal serendipity fashion following with a hasted Gheal. The only instance were you need to do this is when the tank is 20% or less health and you know damage is incoming.

    When they take lots of damage I find I normaly have time to get two greater heals in rather than a flash then greater, then keep spamming heal to top off this will get you a lot more heals per mana.

    Prayer of mending, in heroics casting this on pull probably isn't needed unless you know its going to go past 3 ticks as there's aoe damage, on trash you shouldn't need to most of the time.

    What are you doing when the tank is stable? Heal should regen its mana cost in its cast time, so constantly spam it regardless of tank health (unless you are loosing lots of mana), this is firstly because you can land a 8-7k heal on him when he does take damage, secondly surge of light may proc giving you a free instant flash heal for when he does take that extra damage that can then be topped up with a half hastened Gheal if needed.

    Also I dont see you mentioning holy word: serenity anywhere, this should be your first button to hit when the take takes excess damage, 1k mana ish and instant and about 10k of healing (this maybe wrong). but you should always be in chakra heal to have this option for 5 mans.


    If you are still having issues, possibly try moving some gems from int/haste to int/mastery. These stats are pretty equal for us atm and in heroics you dont need the extra ticks on renew as you will be refreshing it with heal anyway. haste means you are casting faster and going oom quicker. Mastery is essentially free healing.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blu View Post
    I'm guessing these are pug's? The people you get in pugs can be hit and miss, I had one undergeared tank trying to chain pull HC grim batol with no cc the other day for example. It wasn't to bad as I out gear the place but was no quicker as I needed to have mana breaks. (which he was ignoring until i started life gripping him back pre pull).

    Anyway, firstly I noticed you mentioning flash heal being your go to spell when someone takes a lot of damage, it shouldn't be a default reaction to mash flash heal serendipity fashion following with a hasted Gheal. The only instance were you need to do this is when the tank is 20% or less health and you know damage is incoming.

    When they take lots of damage I find I normaly have time to get two greater heals in rather than a flash then greater, then keep spamming heal to top off this will get you a lot more heals per mana.

    Prayer of mending, in heroics casting this on pull probably isn't needed unless you know its going to go past 3 ticks as there's aoe damage, on trash you shouldn't need to most of the time.

    What are you doing when the tank is stable? Heal should regen its mana cost in its cast time, so constantly spam it regardless of tank health (unless you are loosing lots of mana), this is firstly because you can land a 8-7k heal on him when he does take damage, secondly surge of light may proc giving you a free instant flash heal for when he does take that extra damage that can then be topped up with a half hastened Gheal if needed.

    Also I dont see you mentioning holy word: serenity anywhere, this should be your first button to hit when the take takes excess damage, 1k mana ish and instant and about 10k of healing (this maybe wrong). but you should always be in chakra heal to have this option for 5 mans.


    If you are still having issues, possibly try moving some gems from int/haste to int/mastery. These stats are pretty equal for us atm and in heroics you dont need the extra ticks on renew as you will be refreshing it with heal anyway. haste means you are casting faster and going oom quicker. Mastery is essentially free healing.
    Hum, thanks for the tips. Yeah i'm talking about pugs.You made me have second toughts about the haste now. Indeed maybe mastery would be my best choice. Regarding the serenity, yeah usually i pop it when i see the health droping to half of the bar. I'm gonna run more HCs and see what's going on. thanks so much for your tips guys

  7. #7
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    One other tip from a brother Disc priest: Go on a one-week Flash Heal diet. I'm serious; don't cast FH for a week and see how it changes your playstyle. I initially replaced FH with Binding Heal in my loadout for the first week that I was healing 5-mans. Give this a try. Yes, it's not the same and you may overheal. So what? The point is to force yourself to change any bad habits.

    I've gone so far as to remove FH from my toolkit entirely (replacing it with Smite), since it's just that bad for Disc Priests. I wouldn't advise being that extreme in Holy, but the (cough) discipline of removing FH from your lineup for a week might break the Wrath habits.

    Oh, and the first time that you try this drastic of a change, bring 2 guildies with you. That way, it's not only a Guild Run, but the PUG'rs can't kick you. Rather, you can kick them for being undergeared or unsympathetic to a player who's trying to improve. This worked wonderfully for me the other day.
    Last edited by Tiata; 01-29-2011 at 11:18 PM.
    "If the Truth can be told, so as to be Understood, it Will be Believed." - Terrence McKenna

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amithiel View Post
    ... Ok, deadmines is just 1 example. I cast renew on the tank and chackra/heal and POM before the pull. then i keep casting heal nonstop, since my spirit gives my mana faster than i can spend. Then i got shocked the tank looses health way too fast for this. Its just not working, forget it. So i start casting 1 flash heal, and 1 greater heal. then i cast another heal or 2...but its not working again, so here we go flash flash greater and so on.
    A few moments later i'm OOM, everyone dies and i hear "healer, you suck".
    Hey there. Well, I use the same method, Im a Holy Priest and before the pulling I cast Renew-Power Word: Shield-chakra-POM to be prepared for the steam adds. If you are having problems with single target healing, try to cast a heal after chakra to maximize Heal Output, if that doesnt solve the problem (if you tried everything) and the HP of the tanks falls rapidly you can be assured that the tank needs more gear or use his/her CDs.

    As for the "healer you suck" try to understand the tank mechanics, try to know the CDs of every class (I have shamy healer and druid healer to know how healing in general works) if you have knowledge of this, you can reply saying that the tank doesnt have a proper tree abilities for tanking or gear, or you can ask if there is any problem for the tank to use CDs...

    Best Regards!
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/ragnaros/naphazw/simple
    Other Characters visit my profile

  9. #9
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    Life Grip

    Quote Originally Posted by Blu View Post
    I'm guessing these are pug's? The people you get in pugs can be hit and miss, I had one undergeared tank trying to chain pull HC grim batol with no cc the other day for example. It wasn't to bad as I out gear the place but was no quicker as I needed to have mana breaks. (which he was ignoring until i started life gripping him back pre pull).
    .

    The BEST use of Life Grip I have ever heard!

    I am using that from now on.

    I did use it in H Grim Batol where an undergeared pally was trying to chain pull.
    It worked GREAT. Really "grabbed his attention" and he started marking for CC.
    TY: Blu!

    TY
    Last edited by Uranos7; 02-02-2011 at 07:09 AM.
    "It's always the Healer's fault; unless it's the Tanks fault, just ask the DPS'er in purples doing 5k!"

  10. #10
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    I am rather nervous to respond in advice style situations because I, myself, am constantly learning and revising to try to better myself as a healer. I am by no means the greatest healer out there. However, there are a few things I do differently than what you describe.

    At the start of an instance I will put up my chakra but not activate it until the first pull when I see how well the tank is holding aggro and I adjust my choice of chakra accordingly. My pre-pull set up is often PoM then chakra (so I do not activate sanctuary before I know if that is what I am going to be using), shield (to buy me a little time of seeing how the tank handles himself before he needs any serious healing), and renew. This is all done pre-pull so that my mana from these casts is pretty much completely replenished before the fight starts.

    Assuming the tank is holding the aggro well and the dps are not taking dmg, I activate serenity and use the instant cast Holy Word: Serenity pretty much on cooldown between Heal spams. If the tank dips below 50% health and I know that he is not going to get hit for another 50% health in the next few seconds, I may cast greater heal to get him back up before heading back to my normal rotation. If he suddenly drops down to 20% health or so I cast Guardian Spirit (it is a 3 min cd so don't be afraid to use it even on trash). The renew continues to refresh so I can pretty much forget about that once I have it up as long as I am in serenity state and casting any direct heal before it expires. Most fights that take a big chunk of the tank's health do not hit all that frequently so you have time to get him topped off before he gets hit hard again. A few of the fights are % based dmg (such as some of the pats on BRC) which means you do not have to panic and get the tank completely topped off ASAP but rather just make sure the tank is getting enough healing to survive the hits between and immediately after the % based dmg ability.

    For encounters where the group as a whole is taking dmg, either by fight mechanic, tank failure, or dps stupidity (standing in crap because they expect to be healed through it) I use my chakra to activate sanctuary. This increases the healing of renew as well as your AoE healing spells. Prayer of Healing costs less mana than a flash heal and heals the entire group. If I know in advance that the group will be taking a lot of dmg I put out a lightwell and yell at them to use it. I try to put it in range of tanks and to the side of any actual activity but it is more for dps because tanks can sometimes have trouble clicking it with a big bad guy in their face.

    For mana regen problems the key is to pay attention to your bar. I have used my mana fiend on trash if the tank is spam pulling. If you are familiar with the fight, you can often time a good moment to use your hymn of hope. And even if you know the group will take some dmg but not die while using your hymn of hope, you can finish out the cast and then immediately hit Divine Hymn to get everyone back up quickly before moving back into whatever healing rotation is working best for that fight. Also, bearing in mind the same thought process, potion of concentration gives twice the mana of a mythical mana potion (and costs less to make!) Yes it takes you "out of the game" for a few seconds while you drink it but it continues to regen through dmg taken and can be broken early in an emergency. Healing in Cata is less about 'quick' and more about 'control'.


    These things work for me but they may or may not work well for others. If any of it seems interesting, you can try it out and see if it works for you. I still occasionally run out of mana on a crazy fight here or there (especially if the rest of the group is not very aware of their surroundings...ie, standing in dmg zones, standing too close to others on chain dmg effects or too far apart on shared dmg effects, pulling aggro, etc) and gear does make a world of difference on just how much abuse you can take in a given fight. Try not to let other people steal your love for what you do with their angry comments. Healers often get blamed for things they are not completely responsible for because we are the 'goalies', the last line of defense to determine whether our team or the enemy wins the fight. And sometimes people put more pressure on that last line of defense rather than looking for ways to support their teammate and make things easier for the whole group.

  11. #11
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    From a tank perspective I'd like to add that tanks should also be using their defensive cooldowns, stuns and interrupts on each pull, for all the same reasons that cc should be used. We can, and should, be doing a lot more than just hitting mobs.
    How does a PC gamer change a light bulb? He doesn't. He goes on the forums and QQs about it being dark.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladesong View Post
    From a tank perspective I'd like to add that tanks should also be using their defensive cooldowns, stuns and interrupts on each pull, for all the same reasons that cc should be used. We can, and should, be doing a lot more than just hitting mobs.
    hear hear Bladesong.... Us Tanks and those squirrelly DPS should be doing their party to make the Healer's job easier.

  13. #13
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    It's always the healer's fault, unless it's the tanks fault, just ask the dps'er in purples doing 5k.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theotherone View Post
    It's always the healer's fault, unless it's the tanks fault, just ask the dps'er in purples doing 5k.
    I'm stealing this for my new signature! lol
    "It's always the Healer's fault; unless it's the Tanks fault, just ask the DPS'er in purples doing 5k!"

  15. #15
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    First don't worry; holy priests make the worst tank healers. Tank healing actually eats mana for holy. Just as an example, Prayer of Healing is actually cheaper than Greater Heal. But in five mans, you're stuck with the job.

    Try setting up your frames so they show health deficits. When the tank's health is -20k or below, use Greater Heal. When he's at maybe -100k, use FH. For anything else, spam Heal to keep your Renew rolling. Don't worry about Serendipity. It's a nice bonus, but you want to focus on using the most efficient heal for the deficit.

    Also remember you can use Circle of Healing and Prayer of Healing to top off the party. Occasionally I get tunnel vision when I'm healing a tank and forget that these spells are still my most efficient heals. CoH in particular is quick and cheap, allowing you to top off a group without shifting your focus away from the tank.

    On a side note, spirit is amazing, but intellect is better. It increases your mana pool, buffs some of your mana return cooldowns, and also buffs your healing. Put some +40 intellect gems in your red sockets, and see what else you can do to get more intellect. You can also use intellect food and flasks instead of spirit ones, especially with over 2500 spirit from your gear.

  16. #16
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    Thanks for all the replies guys. Some time has passed since i posted this. Now all have changed. I'm pretty much confident, and i'm good at my job. Never had a complaint after my changes . My enchants/gems were indeed wrong. Now i'm done with heroics. i got all the best gear and all the reps at max. it was cool, thanks a bunch. now...into the raiding! =)

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