Bear tank aggro + low DPS

[Skadet]

Hi there,

I'm beginning to tank heroics and I feel like I'm not doing so great. Snap aggro is more or less impossible for me, and my DPS while tanking is abysmal (maybe 3k-4k single-target).
ilvl 334.

Here's what I'm doing now for single targets:
-FFF
-Mangle
-Demo roar vs melee
-Lacerate x3
-Pulverize
-Lacerate x3 (let tick)
-mangle/lacerate/maul off CD. Always hit Mangle procs.

Multi-targets:
-FFF one of them
-Swipe
-Thrash
-Demo Roar
-Mangle whatever I'm on
-Swipe/thrash constantly on CD.

Multi-target threat is especially difficult for me. I tried thorns -> shift -> run in, but with only 10 rage (usually decayed to 9-8 by the time I body pull) I have to get beat on instantly before I can swipe/thrash. If anyone does anything, THEY pull aggro and I'm rage starved. This is especially problematic when the healer pulls aggro first before I can get a swipe off.

My experience seems out of line with what I've seen with other tanks. I was a Paladin tank at 80, and aggro was easy. Even today, a simple shield throw snaps aggro AND pulls groups.

The aggro issues combined with my low DPS indicate to me that it could just be me. Advice, anyone?

[kungfugrip]

For single target you want to use FFF and Mangle every single time they are off CD because they generate the most aggro, worry about the lacerates and everything else in between using those every time they come off CD. just in your mind pretend that when FFF and Mangle come off CD they are "procs" that you have to hit right away then go back to what you are doing. I know FFF lasts for 5 mins on the target but it still generates mad aggro recasting it every time you can

For multiple target I'll have to get back to you, I haven't played my bear tank since they hosed AOE tanking, I would tell you what I used to do but it's completely irrelevent now w/ the changes

[Bovinity]

For single target you want to use FFF and Mangle every single time they are off CD because they generate the most aggro,

Faerie Fire no longer generates the bonus threat that it had in Wrath. It's no longer worthwhile to use in an actual rotation, although it's useful as a 0-rage ability if the situation demands it.

Here's what I'm doing now for single targets:
-FFF
-Mangle
-Demo roar vs melee
-Lacerate x3
-Pulverize
-Lacerate x3 (let tick)
-mangle/lacerate/maul off CD. Always hit Mangle procs.

As stated above, FFF is no longer worth using in a rotation. Also I wouldn't really focus on a "rotation" so much anymore. More of a priority system.

Mangle on CD
Maintain Lacerates on target. (Berserk procs are a huge source of threat)
Thrash on CD (Yes, apparently it scales so well that it's worth using single target. There's mathy stuff on this floating around if you wish to look for it.)
Maintain Pulverize on yourself. (Letting it fall off isn't the end of the world, but reapplying it too often will really hurt your berserk procs.)
Lacerate as filler.
Maul when you have excess rage.

Funny thing is that the priorities can change very slightly based on your stats. Astrylian (Rawr guy) worked out 30 different priority lists for single target attacks and they're incorporated into Rawr apparently. One thing that is fairly static is that Swipe is never worth using single target, nor is Faerie Fire until something like...40,000+ AP or something crazy. The actual damage from Pulverize is also fairly low on your priority, don't fall into the trap of thinking that it's like a finisher where you want to mash it the instant you have 3 Lacerate stacks.

Multi-targets:
-FFF one of them
-Swipe
-Thrash
-Demo Roar
-Mangle whatever I'm on
-Swipe/thrash constantly on CD.

Multi-target is actually even simpler. Thrash/Swipe on CD only gives you two free globals, ideally one of which should be a Mangle and the other spent on spreading lacerates around. One thing that we do lack is an AE way to apply Infected Wounds, so try to be mindful of where you throw your Mangle and Maul to try to maxmize the number of slowed targets in the pack.

[Lilreggie]

One thing that will really help your aoe threat is to thrash>swipe>mangle. The reason for swiping first is that it simply generates more instant threat, as well as sustained due to the bleed. Also you should lacerate to 3 stacks on one target then pulverize then put one stack on each target via tab targeting. That will keep your mangle refreshing constantly. Maul on every cd and make sure that it is glyphed. If you are still having issues try casting thorns and then following that with a rejuv on yourself. The extra healing aggro isn't amazing but it does help with each mob.

As far as single target goes,

-FFF
-Mangle
-Lacerate to 3 stacks
-Pulverize
-Lacerate to TWO stacks
-Thrash
-Lacerate to third stack and let tick until the last possible second before pulverize falls off.

NEVER EVER lacerate to 3 stacks in a row EXCEPT for the initial set. 3 gcds is far too long to go without using a direct damage ability. Again maul every cd and keep demo roar up. 30 secs is more than enough time o refresh it. If berserk is available, use it AFTER you have pulverize up as that will tick and provide you free mangle procs, helping with rage. Do not let pulverize fall off, as well as at least one stack of lacerate. Thrash as much as you can. But mangle and maul, as well as 9% crit buff really helps with our purely physical damage. Hope this helps.

[Lilreggie]

EDIT: thrash before swiping always

[Timberton]

There is something wrong with your rotation. In 345 gear I was pulling about 6-7k dps single target.

FFF is crap threat and dps, only use once, and if not used on start of the pull, delay it until a few attacks are in
Mangle, always top priority
Lacerate, use sparsely, You ca take your time to build up. Pulverize at 3 stacks.
MAUL!, you can not forget about this one, it's OFF the gcd, and you can use it on 50-60 rage (not on every CD UNLESS rage is not a problem, I have it hotkeyd to "Q")

Swipe is crap single target, don't use unless 3+ targets
Thrash, use it sparsely, in between a few lacerates, mainly for keeping some aoe threat against the healer. It can be a good filler for when lacerate falls off due to pulverizing, and you need a bleed up for maul boost.

[kittikat]

Also use macros so you don't have so many buttons to worry about pressing.
I link my maul and lacerate together so I lacerate as I spam Maul. Great for tab-targetting and mashing the maul button to lacerate multiple targets.
Thrash and Swipe I put together on a reset=6 cast sequence.

[kungfugrip]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-4.0.1-edition

Check that out, should answer all your questions.

For myself, since my last post I started tanking again cause I got tired of Q's. My rotation (first check my spec/glyphs in the Alliance link in my sig [keep in mind the online gear viewer doesn't show reforging] - also, glyph maul and macro it to every move, ie:

#showtooltip Mangle(Bear Form)
/startattack
/cast Mangle(Bear Form)
/cast !Maul

like that - keep in mind I have that macroe'd to every single attack I have [not the shouts and all, or FFF])

3 or more targets:

Thorns yourself-> Bear Form, Enrage, FFF main target and enter fight, Swipe, Thrash, Demo Roar, Barkskin, Lacerate x1 -> Pulverize (just to get the buff up for Savage Defense procs). Then I just spam swipe and use thrash whenever it is up while refreshing demo roar whenever its about to fall off and 1 lacerate into a pulverize if buff is dropping, and barkskin again if the fight goes that long. Each time the main kill target dies and you switch to the next mob, FFF it. I have no problem holding the mobs as long as I mark the main one I'm targetting as the skull. If i start to lose threat I just mangle them too, or since my FFF is on a mouseover sometimes I'll FFF the other mobs in between swiping and thrashing, while still keeping my current target.


Bosses/Single targets:

Thorns/Enrage, FFF while running in, Mangle, Demo Shout, Lacerate x 3, Pulverize, Mangle, Lacerate x 3

Then just:

Keep Mangle on CD and use it FIRST every proc
Keep Demo Roar up
Keep Pulverize buff up to proc Savage Defense
Keep Lacerate at 3 stacks and let it tick until Pulverize buff about to fall off then pulverize again and immediately refresh lacerate stacks to begin ticking again
Use Swipe if Mangle and Maul are on CD and Lacerate is at 3 stacks while pulverize buff is up
Use Barkskin whenever it's off CD (pref save for heavy damage phases but it's only a min CD so use it as much as possible)
Growl or FFF during movement or knockbacks

I have 0 problems with aggro and I'm tanking heroics

[Kwatee]

What about hit rating, i see a lot of bears saying dont worry about your hit rating?????

[lostplotman]

i keep hearing about aoe tanking being hard. mark 2 targets, 1 with a skull n other with x. tell everyone AT THE START that skulls first then x. and all u should need to do is shift to bear, charge and as charging use enrage to get rage up, all i do next is thrash and swipe then mangle, maul at same time, lacerate, then normaly thrash and swipe again, pulverize and then lacerate to max again. by this time u should well and truly have skull and x down and have threat over rest of mob, when on to last target just use normal hits, build up rage. if agro is going hit with mangle then wait again. with next mob u should have full/half rage if not then enrage again as u charge into next group. simple and easy and i dont have issue with mobs.