Is my Prot Pally tank doing it right?

[Lequisha]

Okay, I'm aware that Mastery is a very strong stat for Protection Warriors due to it basically making them have a 30% shield wall for all (or as close to all as possible) physical attacks against them. Also for Protection Warriors, threat isn't a huge issue beyond the initial threat since vengeance stack fairly quickly and ramps their threat up quite a bit.

For Protection Paladins, they have the block mechanic, just like Warriors, except that with Holy Shield they reduce physical damage taken by 40%. Granted, unlike Warriors, they don't have a Shield Block ability to increase their block chance (unless I'm missing something major) but their mastery does increase their block chance by 2.25% per point of mastery (while Warriors get 1.5% for block and critical block). With this, would Prot Paladins want to go for Mastery at the cost of most other stats (like many Warriors just reforging the highest stat on their gear into Mastery)?

Also, is Prot Paladin threat low compared to other tanks (after considering vengeance)? He seems to be going massively into hit rating at the sacrifice of avoidance and mastery. Is this a wise decision?

Here is a armory link for those interested: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../dorr/advanced
Any input regarding his reforging, gemming, enchanting, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Note: Some information is a no-brainer, just wanted to mention to ensure some of my information is correct and whatnot.

[Lumines]

With this, would Prot Paladins want to go for Mastery at the cost of most other stats (like many Warriors just reforging the highest stat on their gear into Mastery)?

Yes.

Also, is Prot Paladin threat low compared to other tanks (after considering vengeance)? He seems to be going massively into hit rating at the sacrifice of avoidance and mastery. Is this a wise decision?

No, paladin threat isn't low, and no, that isn't a wise decision at all.

Here is a armory link for those interested: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../dorr/advanced
Any input regarding his reforging, gemming, enchanting, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

This player doesn't know what they're doing when it comes to reforging. Reforging avoidance stats to Hit rating is a terrible trade-off; healer mana (and hence reducing/smoothing out incoming damage) matters, threat does not. Any Hit or Expertise on an item can be safely reforged to Mastery.

I'm not a fan of his talent spec either, as 2/2 Hallowed Ground but no Grand Crusader (even 1/2) and 2/3 Rule of Law is sub-optimal for single target fights. Eternal Glory is also a fantastic talent for progression raiding, given that threat should be a non-issue outside of the first 30 seconds of a fight and Holy Power should, in most cases, be used for Word of Glory heals past that point

I think that player is either uninformed, or looking to maximise personal DPS at the expense of their survivability. Even then, they're not making those trade-offs in a smart way.

[Kazeyonoma]

moved to HALP!

[Lequisha]

Yes.



No, paladin threat isn't low, and no, that isn't a wise decision at all.



This player doesn't know what they're doing when it comes to reforging. Reforging avoidance stats to Hit rating is a terrible trade-off; healer mana (and hence reducing/smoothing out incoming damage) matters, threat does not. Any Hit or Expertise on an item can be safely reforged to Mastery.

I'm not a fan of his talent spec either, as 2/2 Hallowed Ground but no Grand Crusader (even 1/2) and 2/3 Rule of Law is sub-optimal for single target fights. Eternal Glory is also a fantastic talent for progression raiding, given that threat should be a non-issue outside of the first 30 seconds of a fight and Holy Power should, in most cases, be used for Word of Glory heals past that point

I think that player is either uninformed, or looking to maximise personal DPS at the expense of their survivability. Even then, they're not making those trade-offs in a smart way.

Okay, I figured my thoughts were right. I'd done a spot check on Maintankadin and figured I'd cross check here to see if people agreed regarding the value of mastery (there was a lengthy thread with quite a bit of math weighing ratings for mastery vs. armor and avoidance, so I figured it was sound anyways). And I wasn't really sure if he needed the threat stats or not, I'm not familiar with Prot Pally ins and outs. I'd seen his lack of Grand Crusader and 3/3 Rule of Law and personally thought it odd, since they'd increase his threat gen as a whole (possibly aiding in his lack of need for threat stats). Especially not getting them while maintaining points in Hallowed Ground, which I didn't think paladins used outside of aoe groups.

For Eternal Glory, do you think it'd actually be necessary that he should spec into it? And if so, should he pull the points from Divinity or Seals of the Pure? I'm thinking Seals of the Pure if threat is as much of a non-issue outside of initial threat establishment that you'd be using your Holy Power on WoG instead of SotR? Since Divinity increases survivability, and increases chances you have enough outside healing to allow WoG to overheal and give you the Guarded by the Light shield?

And for advice on his enchanting and gemming, I assume it should be basically similar to popular warrior gemming/enchanting? Basically, using mastery for yellows, pure stamina (but preferably stamina/mastery) for blues, and parry/stamina for reds to meet sockets? And dropping the Expertise enchant to gloves and grabbing Mastery, with either Mending or Pyrium Weapon Chain to his weapon (if he's insistent on keeping a hit rating enchant on his weapon)?

[Lumines]

Yep, that all sounds right. I'm not sure I'm the best sounding board for whether or not Tankspot agrees with Maintankadin, since I'm really a Maintankadin poster who sometimes frequents Tankspot rather than a native

Theck's Matlab thread and the Talent and Glyph sticky at Maintankadin details the TPS per point of each threat talent. Eternal Glory isn't absolutely mandatory, but it is very, very highly recommended. Reports from raiding paladin tanks right now suggests that most of their Holy Power goes into WoG heals rather than SotR, and threat is a non-issue to the point that many are switching to Seal of Insight for the self-healing rather than Seal of Truth. Both of these points increase the value of Eternal Glory relative to Seals of the Pure; SotP isn't giving you any benefit when you have Seal of Insight active, and Eternal Glory gives you the ability to cast WoG (on yourself or on other raid members, if need be) more often.

Eternal Glory is also potentially a threat increase, although one which is difficult to quantify. You could WoG heal yourself, get an Eternal Glory proc and then still use the three Holy Power for a SotR, for example. It's a pretty decent talent.

You're also absolutely correct on the gemming and enchanting suggestions, too.

[Lequisha]

Yep, that all sounds right. I'm not sure I'm the best sounding board for whether or not Tankspot agrees with Maintankadin, since I'm really a Maintankadin poster who sometimes frequents Tankspot rather than a native

Theck's Matlab thread and the Talent and Glyph sticky at Maintankadin details the TPS per point of each threat talent. Eternal Glory isn't absolutely mandatory, but it is very, very highly recommended. Reports from raiding paladin tanks right now suggests that most of their Holy Power goes into WoG heals rather than SotR, and threat is a non-issue to the point that many are switching to Seal of Insight for the self-healing rather than Seal of Truth. Both of these points increase the value of Eternal Glory relative to Seals of the Pure; SotP isn't giving you any benefit when you have Seal of Insight active, and Eternal Glory gives you the ability to cast WoG (on yourself or on other raid members, if need be) more often.

Eternal Glory is also potentially a threat increase, although one which is difficult to quantify. You could WoG heal yourself, get an Eternal Glory proc and then still use the three Holy Power for a SotR, for example. It's a pretty decent talent.

You're also absolutely correct on the gemming and enchanting suggestions, too.

Mkay, thank you for your information and confirmation. Now I can approach him regarding my concerns with the knowledge that I'm not crazy and am indeed primarily right. Will be nice having his survivability increased so I don't worry about that so much. Thank you.