I guess its possible we've never had issues cause 1 yard is so small that you would have to be right on top of another person for it to happen.
Last edited by Lightmgl; 01-21-2011 at 04:12 PM.
Also, I did Halfus HC yesterday, had Safeguard specced but we never used it in our strat since I ended up tanking a drake.
Why do people take Heavy Repercussions and not Safeguard? If threats an issue, tell me why you're all reforging expertise and hit into mastery or avoidance. Do you not run with rogues or hunters? I've yet to see a strong arguement to not take this talent, unless you're 100% maintanking on a boss. Even then, there are plenty of tank swap situations and times you could still use it.
Burst threat is important and that's why we take Heavy Repercussions.
Many situations where one could use Safeguard, very few where it's actually good, and no situation where it's a must.Even then, there are plenty of tank swap situations and times you could still use it.
I'm playing a healer and a tank. I've learned that it's much more important to the raid that the tank(s) survive than anybody else, including myself as a healer. Well ther may be some exceptions from this rule, but it's true for most encounters. If you loose one DD others may be enough to finish the encounter, if you lose a healer there may be other healers, or someone who can cover up with some healing while everybody else switch to more selfhealing stuff. But if your tank dies, chances are quite high that it's a wipe. If the boss is nearly down, you may be able to finish the encounter without the tank. But if that's the case you probably would be able to finish the encounter more easily if someone else would have died instead of the tank.
Sure, safeguard does not endanger the tank in every situation. But others do. Or they endanger other players, because the tank moved. Every change to the tank position may force the melee to change position too. So well it may save someone but it can make the encounter harder to beat at the same time, if you use it. At least if you use it to safe a rdm raid member.
Over half the times a raid member is in danger to die, the player screwed up. In many cases the player stands somewhere where one should not stand. Moving someone else to this position may be a bad idea. Some other mechanics hurt people around the player who screwed up, same for this - moving to them is nothing the healers would like to see. If it's something normally happening to the encounter, the player should and probably will use their own CDs first. Most classes have some good ones. Most of them should be enough to cover the problem. Healers will switch to them, too. It's their job, to react with heals to the debuff or whatever is going on, they will do it. If they think it's important, they will use their CDs. They are expecting the incoming dmg. And they definitly know who is low. So both the player and the healers probably will react faster than you. If you add your Safeguard to the mix it may just produce overheal or over-coverage of CDs. That's not usefull. So you definilty should only use it as the last possible CD for saving "normal" players.
If you need it, you have probably quite big problems with the execution of the encounter. Yes, it may be just enough to just get a kill. But in most cases you either would be fine without Safeguard, or you will probably wipe anyway, because you don't handle majore featers of the encounter in the right way.
The only exception to this may be to use it regularly to safe the other tank. But as people pointed out before, there are only few encounters where this is the case. There are also many other CDs which don't have so high opportunity costs and would cover the tank, too. So it highly depends on your raid-setup if it has a chance to be used for this situations. If you have enough other external CDs, Safeguard is just not needed. So it's definitly not a "must have" talent for every tank.
As for gag-order: It's quite usefull for pulling and positioning casters. And there are many situations, where a silence is better than a simplle interrupt. That's true for trash and sometimes even in boss encounters. Not every mob you are facing is imune to it. If you have only one tank spec it should be part of your spec. You will tank trash and it's highly worth to have it there. If you have two tanking specs you probably don't need it in both. But the question is what do you have two tanking specs for. Most would not only want to switch around two points, but would focus them for different situations. In most cases it's single target/boss focussed and trash/OT focussed. If I would have to decide between Gag Order and Safeguard for the pure MT spec, I would chose the silence. Because Intervening is very seldom possible in tank&spanc situations. As for the trash/OT spec, Gag Order just belongs here. It's utility that will be usefull in many situations in such a spec. With taking Gag Order you may just be able to prevent the bad situation for which you would need Safeguard. Most stuff that can only be lived through with a DR-CD, can be avoided. Preventing the start of another cast for some seconds longer may be part of it.
I'd actually use it if it weren't for that 0 brain mechanic were it removes threat, awesome design from blizz the few times I want to use intervene on the offtank I can't due to him losing threat over me.
I have hunters and rogues for my burst threat on the pull.
There are plenty of ways around the threat component. You can intervene the other tank right before they taunt. In the case of Chimaeron, I'm off taking an add to the entrance of the room and by the time i get back the other tank has plenty of threat for me to safeguard them.
I can understand not taking it if you have no rogues or hunters, or if you're doing farm content and really just want to gear for threat. But we're talking progression here and I think any warrior not taking it in a progression build is missing out on something that could make the difference.
Still not seen a decent arguement to not take it!
Also - Burst threat isn't just for the pull.