Cata 4.X "Unhittable" Macro

[Dragaan]

... Reforge for more Mastery, remove those +60 Stam Gems in your gear. Dodge gems are for Druids. Gems should be Mastery where ever possible, Parry next, Stamina last....

I disagree with this, especially w/o knowing who you're talking to (heroic tank? entry-lv raider? hardcore raider?). The point of pushing for unhittable is so you take no unblocked hits. For a tank who's fresh lv 85 and doing heroics and very entry-lv raiding, even if all gems are mastery and everything is reforged mastery he's going to take many unblocked hits (sometimes several in a row). It's not even possible to reach 85% as a warrior until you're in some epic gear, or at the very least the BEST possible pre-raid avoidance gear, and that's still 15-17% from unhittable. I believe it's much smarter to start out pushing stam.

Also, some of these fights obviously favor stamina stacking (and others favor mastery). Some bosses, esp on heroic, dish out MASSIVE spikes of damage on the tank. Tanks can still get gibbed in what seems like the blink of an eye occasionally. Lots of it is not physical and/or not avoidable/blockable. Hell, some of it's not even healable. You need stam.

Armory many of the world's top tanks and you'll notice a lot of them going back to stam. Whether it's because they're gearing for a specific fight or not (heroic cho'gall, for one, probably requires a large hp pool), it still goes to show that stam still has it's place in cata tanking. Blindly stacking mastery/avoidance at this gear level is pretty ignorant imo.

(please don't comment on my stats. I'm constantly changing things to test them out)


Edit: I'm the type of player who regears for the fight. Whatever the current progression encounter favors, I'll be swapping to. Call me old-fashioned tho, but if I HAD to choose a single style of gemming/gearing right now it would definitely be stam/EH until I'm able to get unhittable. I just don't like the idea of dropping ~30-40k+ raid-buffed HP and still taking 10-15% unblocked hits.

[Aggathon]

Also you're (Andenthal)wrong about there being no such thing as a "soft cap" for unhittable.

If you take the 5% base miss chance + parry + dodge + block, then once you're at 102.4%, block starts being pushed off the table, this represents this elusive "cap" that people talk about. Warriors have a "soft cap" in that since they can hit shield block, they add 25%, so dodge+parry+block should be at 72.4% to be at the "soft cap."

[stormeagle6]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't noticed anyone mentioning whether or not these macros factor diminishing returns on dodge/parry or not. Can anyone confirm/disconfirm that the values returned by the macro account for DR?

[Quinafoi]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't noticed anyone mentioning whether or not these macros factor diminishing returns on dodge/parry or not. Can anyone confirm/disconfirm that the values returned by the macro account for DR?

Deminishing returns is factored in before avoidance percentage is returned by the APIs. They return the already deminished value as it is represented on your character sheet.

[stormeagle6]

Deminishing returns is factored in before avoidance percentage is returned by the APIs. They return the already deminished value as it is represented on your character sheet.

But the value on your character sheet has a little note that says "(before diminishing returns)." I was always under the impression that the value on the character sheet did not take diminishing returns into account, which would mean that your actual dodge/parry is lower than what it says. The version of the macro that shows the individual added values does indeed give the same numbers for dodge/parry that are on the character sheet.

So am I to understand that the values given on the character sheet are in fact post-diminishing returns, despite them having a note that specifically says otherwise?

[Aggathon]

The before diminishing returns is talking about the rating percentage that's under the actual percentage. So when it says "X% dodge from Y dodge rating" that's just the percent from dodge rating before diminishing returns, the actual white number is your actual dodge.

[Kazeyonoma]

that's only when you highlight over it, it tells you the % of avoidance you gain from your ratings BEFORE DRs, but just looking at your char sheet without any highlighting, is post DR numbers.

[stormeagle6]

Cool, thanks for clearing that up guys, something that's been bothering me ever since Wrath hit and I never remembered to look into it.

[Brage]

Sorry for necroing a somewhat dead thread, but as of lately i've been doubting whether or not i actually am "unhittable" when using Shield Block, so i just want to ask:
The first macro listed on page 1, does that factor in the 5% miss chance from pve opponents? Because if it doesn't, then we only need to reach 97.4% combined ratings or am i totally wrong?

[Quinafoi]

Sorry for necroing a somewhat dead thread, but as of lately i've been doubting whether or not i actually am "unhittable" when using Shield Block, so i just want to ask:
The first macro listed on page 1, does that factor in the 5% miss chance from pve opponents? Because if it doesn't, then we only need to reach 97.4% combined ratings or am i totally wrong?

There are several macros posted on the first page so you'd have to be more clear.

If there is any doubt in your mind, use my modified macro which automatically shifts based on target level posted at the end of page one, reposted here. This macro doesn't automatically shift for if you are a Night Elf so you'd have to manually alter it by changing the 5 assigned to "m"iss to a 7 (simply not enough character space).

/run u,t=UnitLevel("player"),UnitLevel("target") if t==-1 then t=u+3 end ld,d,p,b,m=0.2*(u-t),GetDodgeChance(),GetParryChance(),GetBlockChance(),5 DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(format("Lvl: "..t.."  Unhit: %.2f%%  Avoid: %.2f%%",d+p+b+m+ld*4,d+p+m+ld*3))

Target something and it will tell you your avoidance and unhittable percentages. So if you want to measure it against a boss, target a boss and run the macro. If you want to test it against an 85, target an 85 and run it. Bare in mind buffs and debuffs may actually alter the mob for the specific encounter, such as Nether Scion's debuff on Halfus Wyrmbreaker increases his chance to miss by 25% (upping it from 4.4% to 29.4% miss rate against a max level player). Other mechanics may also alter this value, for example a knockdown, or if the target was behind you would adversely affect your values.

Using this macro you are also not on a 102.4% scale when comparing yourself to a boss. It shifts the scale so that you are always on a 100% scale so it is easier to understand exactly how many attacks will get through.

[Mesamune]

What's everyone's avoidance? I am 335 average item level according to the Armory and i am getting 64% self buffed and fully, gemmed, enchanted, and reforged as a blood elf paladin. I just want to get a few examples of others item levels and just how much avoidance we can get, and if anyone has reached 102.4% yet. Thanks in advance.

[Quinafoi]

Only warriors when activating the shield block ability are breaking the 102.4% threshold so far. In current gear levels it isn't possible to be passively unhittable yet.

[Kazeyonoma]

yeah, at best, in Raid gear, probably more so with heroic raid gear, and with an emphasis on mastery gemming and reforging, i think players are coming up on 80-85% unhittability passive.

[Mesamune]

Thanks, is 64% good or bad for doing 5 man heroics? Are there any that are very hard to do without a certain avoidance? I will have to try out the macro that is used on the boss next to compare.

[Quinafoi]

Yep. Emphasis being on the not possible yet. We may see it being hit as early as tier 12 heroic gear, and more likely around tier 13.

Thanks, is 64% good or bad for doing 5 man heroics? Are there any that are very hard to do without a certain avoidance? I will have to try out the macro that is used on the boss next to compare.

That's plenty good for 5 mans. 5 mans are more about proper technique. Execute the fight correctly and you should be fine.

[Kazeyonoma]

@Mesamune: 64% is fine doing 5 man heroics, with 5 mans, most of the fights, aren't about gear checks at all (aside from some dps checks) but more of knowing what to do, stay out of this, interrupt that, move away when he does this, etc, etc. 64% isn't a terrible place to start, it does sound a bit low, but if you're just getting into it, what else can you do right? Just use CC's as much as possible, know the fights going in, and bust your balls to keep everything on you so the healer can focus on healing you and not others.

There is no theoretical "minimum avoidance/unhittability" to do x-content, just do it, and you'll find the way.

[Mesamune]

Thanks for the info. Yes, I am just starting out tanking cata dungeons and have only completed two 5m heroic dungeons so far to include VP and BWC. I have attemped a few more via Random but never completed because we kept whiping. These new dungeons are pretty hard to tank in my opinion but i think a lot of that is due to new content. Do you know if the current macros for avoidance will stay in effect for patch 4.0.6?

[Kazeyonoma]

nothing in 4.0.6 is changing the combat table so they should be fine.

[Brage]

My combined avoidance/block shows a 90.00% exactly, raid buffed w. Elixir of the Master. I could get a tad more from reforging abit of expertise -> dodge, but the ammount is so low i cba.
Getting close but i doubt there's enough itemlevels around even in heroic BiS items, to reach the 102.4% passively as a warrior atleast.

[Quinafoi]

We already said it is impossible to hit 102.4% passively in current available gear. It will likely be possible to become passively unhitable in tier 12 heroic gear or more likely tier 13 gear. Even if you take the best possible avoidance piece in every slot though it's not possible to get it today. Only a Warrior's Shield Block ability can cause this threshold to be temporarily reached today.