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Thread: Prot Warrior Incoming Damage Calculations

  1. #21
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    I do love my kings buff in raids for the extra 5% strength though :P

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by edeesis View Post
    I don't know if you guys realize this, but Plate Specialization for Protection Warriors is 5% Stamina, not Strength.

    Reference: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=86526
    Edeesis ftw.

    Edit: Hello built-in stam stacking.
    Which begs the question..... does the 5% stam apply only to the armor's base stat, or do gems count towards that?
    No one tanks in a void.........

  3. #23
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    Ah, I think I see what you're saying, but I think practically it's not going to make a difference.
    Take a piece with a very generious 300 STR on it.

    Without factoring in Plate spec, you gain .424% pre-DR Parry from it.
    With Plate spec taken into consideration, you gain .445% pre-DR Parry from it.

    It's a difference of .02% on each piece of gear with STR on it (pre-DR and being very generous). Figuring 16 slots of gear with STR on them, that's .32% pre-DR Parry you gain from Plate spec.

    Similar to how you gain more Pary through buffs than you gain Dodge.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanis View Post
    In the formula for critical block chance with Shield Block, D63, it has mastery * 0.015 + 0.25. The first part makes sense but I where does the 0.25 base come from? Most formulas I've found are simply Mastery * 0.015. That feels wrong because without a base crit chance, warriors would have either 0 or 10% crit block (entirely from HtL) until level 80 and gear with mastery. Maybe that is the case. In any case, perhaps you've added 0.25 to the crit chance on accident because 0.25 is added to overall chance to block?

    Edit: Same 0.25 constant is in E63, crit block chance during SB + HtL
    Some testing done here is showing that popping SB is increasing your block chance AND your crit block chance by 25% each. This is completely separate from the "spillover" mechanic. No one was sure if it was a bug, or intended, haven't seen anything official about it yet.

    http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...chanics/page10

    Would be nice to get more tests done on that.
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  5. #25
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    Thank you.
    Yes. That was what I was getting at.

    Going back to the earlier example, where we saw a overall change of 0.3622% avoidance, 0.32% would be a small bit behind that.

    Of course... that would be if the plate specialization were strength, as Edeesis was kind enough to point out.

    Still, useful because it shows how much a 5% shift in strength stat overall would affect parry.
    No one tanks in a void.........

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanis View Post
    In the formula for critical block chance with Shield Block, D63, it has mastery * 0.015 + 0.25. The first part makes sense but I where does the 0.25 base come from? Most formulas I've found are simply Mastery * 0.015. That feels wrong because without a base crit chance, warriors would have either 0 or 10% crit block (entirely from HtL) until level 80 and gear with mastery. Maybe that is the case. In any case, perhaps you've added 0.25 to the crit chance on accident because 0.25 is added to overall chance to block?

    Edit: Same 0.25 constant is in E63, crit block chance during SB + HtL
    On both of these, I was under the impression that Shield Block was giving +25% chance to block AND a +25% chance to Crit Block. It is one of those things I read someplace and just assumed to be correct, storing it in my brain.

    Just added in the Estimated Average Damage taken with ideal uptime on Shield Block and Estimated Uptime on HtL (thanks to Tanis and especially WarTotem for the math on that). It gives you an estimated total % of incoming damage and the estimated avg inc damage from a 5 minute fight (well, the autoattacks of the boss, anyway).

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andenthal View Post
    Some testing done here is showing that popping SB is increasing your block chance AND your crit block chance by 25% each. This is completely separate from the "spillover" mechanic. No one was sure if it was a bug, or intended, haven't seen anything official about it yet.

    http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...chanics/page10

    Would be nice to get more tests done on that.

    Bah, sat on a reply too long while making changes, I missed this post.

    I knew I read that someplace, thanks for posting it. Right now I changed it to only show what the tooltip says about Shield Block, +25% chance to block. Until there is a bit more of an answer on the subject, I'll just assume that it is a bug and not put it in the sheet.

  8. #28
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    First off, thanks for the link and insight. I had no idea that SB was also granting critical block — intended or otherwise — beyond the spillover mechanic.

    I noticed that the formulas for crit block chance do not take spillover into account except on the base model, B66. According to a blue post from November the spillover only applies when Shield Block is active anyways, so having it in he base and HtL-only models is erroneous.

    However from what I gathered in the critical block discussion linked, it seems like the better way to calculate it would be to forget spillover and just use (mastery * 0.015) + (avoidance + block-without-SB - 0.5) + (HtL { 0, 0.1} ) for models with Shield Block. It handles spillover plus the bonus at the same time. Additionally, when block chance sans Shield Block and avoidance is less than .75, the crit probability from the buff tooltip is less than .25.


    Anyways, I hope to analyze some raw data on it when I can.
    Last edited by tanis; 12-30-2010 at 12:41 PM. Reason: Answered my own question

  9. #29
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    Ok, I have just added another sheet to this Excel/google docs/whatever the hell you call it ... file.

    The second sheet lets you calculate the the full effect of reforging Parry into Dodge to see if the excessive diminishing returns you may be suffering from stacking Parry for increased Hold the Line up time is really worth it compared to overall more avoidance by spreading dodge and parry rating more evenly.


    <Spoiler: If you have a ton of mastery, it inflates the value of keeping hold the line up, so generally, you are going to want to keep stacking parry to an almost 2 to 1 ratio. That might not be 100% accurate, but I will be reforging as much dodge to parry as I can.>


    EDIT: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...sD&hl=en#gid=0
    Last edited by Tharamis; 01-11-2011 at 02:05 PM. Reason: Forgot the link.

  10. #30
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    I'm not getting your "% of Damage after mitigation".... where are you calculating block, before or after armor?
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  11. #31
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    Damage reductions from blocking, armor, and defensive stance are multiplicative so it shouldn't matter which order you do them in.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharamis View Post
    Ok, I have just added another sheet to this Excel/google docs/whatever the hell you call it ... file.

    The second sheet lets you calculate the the full effect of reforging Parry into Dodge to see if the excessive diminishing returns you may be suffering from stacking Parry for increased Hold the Line up time is really worth it compared to overall more avoidance by spreading dodge and parry rating more evenly.


    <Spoiler: If you have a ton of mastery, it inflates the value of keeping hold the line up, so generally, you are going to want to keep stacking parry to an almost 2 to 1 ratio. That might not be 100% accurate, but I will be reforging as much dodge to parry as I can.>


    EDIT: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...sD&hl=en#gid=0
    First off, I want to thank you. Great job!
    So.. I put in my stats and all in to that spreadsheet and its telling me if I would reforge all the possible dodge points into parry then I would gain ~15% HtL uptime and would lose ~0.4% avoidance. Although the spreadsheet also told me the overall damage would be higher by ~0.2% I thought this is a good tradeoff. It is a bit strange though. I can't feel if this is significant or not. Was this a good decision? And where is the turning point? Lets say I would lose 0.4% avoidance and gain a 1% HtL uptime would this be a good trade off?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanis View Post
    Damage reductions from blocking, armor, and defensive stance are multiplicative so it shouldn't matter which order you do them in.

    well, for that matters, armor/stance are probably applied before blocks (and blocks before absorbs)
    Last edited by mcguffin; 01-24-2011 at 07:01 AM.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcguffin View Post
    well, for that matters, armor/stance are probably applied before blocks (and blocks before absorbs)
    In the end it doesn't matter, but I calculated block first because, in my head, it made more sense to start with whether you were going to be hit not how hard you were hit.

  15. #35
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    If you look back at ToC, you'll recognise that Block is calculated before armor/damage reduction.
    That's exactly why Warriors were so OP tanking the adds, because they could block every attack
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharamis View Post
    In the end it doesn't matter, but I calculated block first because, in my head, it made more sense to start with whether you were going to be hit not how hard you were hit.
    I agree that would make more sense (and that I was thinking at first), but, since absorbs come after, that would make a weird discrepancies between tanks with absorb mitigation (druids/dk) and those with block mitigation (war/pala).
    If not, that could also mean that there are 2 differents absorbs calculations, but that sound a bit over-complicated to me.
    Last edited by mcguffin; 01-24-2011 at 09:24 AM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcguffin View Post
    I agree that would make more sense (and that I was thinking at first), but, since absorbs come after, that would make a weird discrepancies between tank with absorb mitigation (druids/dk) and those with block mitigation (war/pala).
    If not, that could also mean that there are 2 differents aborbs calculations, but that sound a bit over-complicated to me.
    It does sound overcomplicated, lol. That is why I only use Warrior based calculations. Hold the line was not very fun to do, and I've had more than a couple people tell me it is wrong. Just haven't had time to play with it enough or test it yet. I can't imagine trying to formulate druid/DK self heals and absorb shields.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharamis View Post
    It does sound overcomplicated, lol. That is why I only use Warrior based calculations. Hold the line was not very fun to do, and I've had more than a couple people tell me it is wrong. Just haven't had time to play with it enough or test it yet. I can't imagine trying to formulate druid/DK self heals and absorb shields.
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    If you look back at ToC, you'll recognise that Block is calculated before armor/damage reduction.
    That's exactly why Warriors were so OP tanking the adds, because they could block every attack
    Actually, I believe Armor was still applied before Block. It's just damage taken multiplier effects were added after Block, which was the key point in that fight.

    Not that it makes any difference now--given that they are all multiplicative other than absorbs, which are last anyhow.
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojiyama View Post
    Actually, I believe Armor was still applied before Block.
    It's an outdated discussion (but still interesting, maybe, who know, we will need to know in the future), but I am pretty sure armor was applied before too. When NPCs were hitting for, let say, an average of 400 unmitigated damage, total blocks events were also around 400.

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