Semi-Nooblet looking to raid hardcore, advice needed.
Sup, new here...Hello all.
I'm a 13 year (beta) veteran hardcore raider of EQ, have the 2nd best HP/AC etc server-wide and I'm currently on the ropes about quitting...Content isn't available etc so, I've really been looking at WoW and the difficulty of raids that arrived with Cata...
What I consider hardcore ~ 6 nights a week, 6 hours a night; I see most WoW guilds, especially the hardcore don't go to that extreme...This is a welcome change, lemmy tell you!
In the past I've been a casual player, always preferred the hardcore aspects of other games but, WoW was always hit or miss, PUGS frequently made the game...less interesting...due to stupidity, to be quite honest...However, obviously my situation has changed and I'd really like to try hardcore raiding in WoW.
I was level 70 on Friday, am now 75; will be 85 just before new years and I really would like to experience the raiding game in WoW.
Reading these forums has provided an amazing resource so, to that I thank you all but, if I were to say wanting to raid cutting edge content, as I've done for the past decade in EQ, where would I start?
I realize hitting 85 first, duh...But for those in my position of wanting significantly more, any advice?
Not attempting to be ignorant, show off or showboat in any way, truly asking for advice to make it, as I did in EQ, in WoW.
Tyvm for your time.
Semi-Nooblet looking to raid hardcore, advice needed.
I was a mt in eq. The skillset for warriors at least is quite different. All i can say is, take it slow read up all you can and run all normal dungeons first so you get a feel for bosses and strats. Get the important add ons like dbm, omen and tidy plates. No top guild will really consider you if you arent carrying good gear gemmed enchanted etc. So you need to make sure you have a plan for gearing up and what drops where. You will also need to max two professions to get the bonuses.
PUGS can be frustrating but lets be fair and not take it there. We were all noobs once and how else are you going to learn. The worth thing for these type of games if for good experienced players to forget where they came from. Let not knock PUGS and try to understand that it might be a learning experience for some players. What roons a game is when experienced players loose tolerance and do not want to help others.
This is probably going to be your ticket to getting any interest from serious guilds out there. EQ raiding was a different bag in terms of fight mechanics, longevity and graphics (significant or not there's a difference). What this history does for you, though, is shows your dedication to pushing progression content and a night of wipes doesn't frighten you. A lot of the hardcore guilds still around from WoW's release are EQ exiles so that may play beneficial as well.
Originally Posted by Monstrous
You don't have a WoW portfolio (old raiding titles, server first achievements, years of experience with the class, beta testing, etc.) so you may have to use this to your advantage in getting any attention from high ranked guilds.
Some guilds still push content like this but for the most part past one or two weeks of patch release, it's really not necessary. I don't recall how it was in EQ (I was too young to be in any serious raiding guild back then) but the top dogs' schedules tend to go from pushing as hard as possible on content's release and then winding down to two or one night clears of content. Schedules seem to require flexibility and dedication more than countless hours every single week.
Originally Posted by Monstrous
Casual and hardcore are the most argued about words in MMOs, I feel. Casual schedule, hardcore play mentality, etc. There's guilds in the US top 100 that raid 8-11 hours a week so it just depends on what you're looking for. The time schedule may change depending on guild, but the attitude won't. If you don't or can't play smart for the hours you're in the zone, they will not hesitate to call you out and remove you. I'm probably telling you stuff you already know, though!
Originally Posted by Monstrous
Your biggest issue is you're going to be about a month behind in gear/reputations/content experience as well as still getting a complete grasp on your class role. Also, getting a tanking spot in a high end guild is probably the toughest role to fill. Rosters typically have 2 tanking positions with 1 offspec/floater. Those spots are typically recruited for and filled ASAP because of how critical it is to fill the geared tank spot for a raid. You can sometimes bring in a somewhat subpar DPS or healer and get through a fight. If your tank isn't capable of surviving or operating the mechanics, your raid is halted.
Originally Posted by Monstrous
There's different levels of "hardcore" raiding as well. There's your cutting edge guilds like vodka, Premonition, Blood Legion, Forlorn Legacy, Adept, etc. that are always competing with each other for that top spot. Then there's guilds like Skunkworks, Imperative, Temporary Insanity, Farm Status, etc. that are good guilds but not really pushing Top 20. Guild environment, skill, roster depth, server population, scheduling and just general luck-of-the-draw all play into the different levels. Some of it comes down to who was able to PTR test stuff more or who's disc priest had to have kidney surgery when HM LK was released.
What I would recommend at this point is to stay local and talk to one of the top guilds on your server. Find some people who are competent to run heroics and just chain run them to max out your gear at this point. I would not apply to a top 50 guild with the fresh 85 smell on you unless you're confident your EQ background will carry you in the qualification department.
1. Gear out with a consistent heroic group. Risking the LFG pugbreathers will slow your task. It also allows you to network on your server and possibly get a recommendation or a "Oh yeah this guy's solid" added to a guild app. Also get two raiding professions maxed. LW/JC is the highest possible effective health gain right now but anything but Herbalism/Skinning can provide similar tanking gains.
2. Keep up with WoWprogress.com for guilds that need a tank spot filled and ranking/schedules that interest you.
3. Be ready to accept the fact that you may have to wait til closer to next content release to get in your most desired guild. They may not be making drastic roster changes until that point.
4. Keep getting experience with the game. Heroics, videos, reading the theorycrafting on Tankspot and Elitist Jerks...Knowledge is power.
This right here. I felt the whole thread started on the wrong foot when it results to name calling. Yes, pugs are a frustrating experience but unless you're an absolutely phenomenal player yourself, I really don't think you have anything to speak of. All and all, hardcore seems to be a bit overrated imo. The line between the success of hardcore guilds and casual guilds can be really thin indeed. My current guild, as well as my previous guild were and are still both casual guilds but we clear a lot of content and have a lot of competent players. Playing more is also not really a good criteria. Top end guilds don't really play more than the rest of us; actually they play less overall and only really push it when new content is released. After all is cleared, the the content is farmed in a couple of days per week.
Originally Posted by dadam191
The only thing that I see separating the really good players from the rest of the lot is simply their ability to analyze and learn quickly, as well make the very most of their time in the game. They can go into the raids before others can because A) they spent a lot of time in the beta/ptr (I know both Ensidia and Paragon spent ridiculous hours in the beta and B) they can survive with less gear than everyone else. Where as some of us need to farm heroics, they can do a couple and immediately start raiding. Unlike many other players, these guys can clear a new instance in hours, where as it can take anything from days to many weeks.
If you really want to include yourself among those players, I really don't see anything else to it except becoming a great player. Top guilds, and not talking about world best, even server best guilds would probably do, are always recruiting and looking for potential players. Learn everything there is about your class and become among the best at it and then start getting experience. You might have to work your way up the ladder but such is life. Also expect that you have to proof yourself, even if you get into a really good guild because they are highly competitive when it comes to raid spots.
One thing I see being a potential problem is your age and trust me, I do not mean any offense when I say there is a good reason why so many guilds do not want to recruit players who are so young. I've personally been on the receiving end of the myriad of problems that arise when your guild accept younger people, even if they are really tolerant as ours. Ofc, if you make it, I'm happy for you but expect it to be a rocky ride.
OP never mentioned his age. He said he had raided in Everquest for 13 years, most likely implying he's AT LEAST mid-20s.
Originally Posted by Dannyl
My bad, misinterpreted that part.
I'm 26, actually...Knew the creators of EQ so, got into it early...Ruined school, entirely but, now I'm an IT for a major company so, no harm, no foul.
I actually didn't mean to insult PUG's but, I seem to be the magnet to the 12 year olds that choose to do absolutely nothing but grief...This was my referral...I realize there are some good people in PUG's but, it was in no way meant to imply they're all like that and/or not filled with any talent...So apologies...Was simply meant to relate my unfortunate luck in old school WoW and why I've neglected to play much, until now.
I'm good for a rocky ride, dying constantly and being on the bleeding edge, did it with BOTS, Afterlife, Sanctuary and most of the other guilds that ported over after WoW released...
Being good at one's class is certainly the most important and am working on that daily...Learn something new every day.
I thank you very much for the advice mentioned thus far, am not against wiping for an entire night and/or being subject to critique so, hopefully things will go well.
EQ expansion was just beat the other day so, fortunately, looks like I'll have a lot of free time on my hands.
Feel free to add by the way, always looking for more!
Trying to understand your "dissing" of pugs though. Since from the looks of your levels you have never done any "endgame content" in wow.
If your experiences with pugs is only through the random dungeon finder while leveling then you are forming an opinion with no real basis.
Since almost all of that content with the exception of a few fights, people are going to be goofballs about.
Its once you get into the Cata instances especially the Heroics that things really change. Yes there will still be idiots, but they will quickly get booted from groups until they learn. This is where people need to relearn kill priority and the usage of CC again. With some groups, yes it won't be needed, but then it usually means a well-geared/good healer and tank.
Your best bet for raiding is to find a good guild that has an opening you can fill, which might entail leveling up another character if you can impress them enough. I have known friends that tried to join a "top" guild with one character and was told that there wasn't any spots for a character of that type, but if they could level up and gear up a character of x type, they might be considered. One tried to join as a boomkin and ended up being their MT with a Prot Pally.
Also what role are you shooting for? Fury, Arms, Prot?
In this expac, no I have not played endgame but, for the previous; yes...
Originally Posted by Selene
Have done my fair share of dungeons and unfortunately, the vast majority of them were with morons. Not saying that may not have changed this Xpac as obviously people are being booted but, circumstances have been vastly different in the past and that's what I referr to.
I cannot refer to dungeons in this expansion because I am not there yet...While I understand now PUGs are great, we all know for a fact; PUGs weren't always great...To this fact, I am referring because it's the only basis I have any experience with this situation, thus far.
Each Xpac I'd max level, play for a bit and then after several bad experiences with dungeon groups, etc...Called it a day...Came back the next xpac, rinsed and repeated....Even did some raiding in TBC...Nothing uber but, it was good stuff.
This is in no way to imply anything bad about PUGs in general; just relaying my past experiences with a group of understanding individuals.
Role wise, I feel I can do whatever is necessary...I've tanked end-game content in EQ, DPS'd end game content in EQ...Easily could do either more than adequately, I feel...So whatever is needed, I could easily handle (IMO).
That being said, now that I've devoted more time into WoW, I'm finding I like it significantly more as there are other variables beyond endurance...I.E. Rage, cooldowns and actually using a specific//intelligent order to fufill one's role. Personally, I'd prefery Fury/Arms as that's what I'm most used to but, I'm not opposed to anything.
Obviously I'll need to soon choose and side with that role for the rest of my gearing but, I haven't exactly reached that point, yet.
I guess I'll go by what's needed most in general and go from there.
Ty for the advice thus far, again Any/all is welcome.
Most of it already been said. Learn all that you can about the game mechanics even different classes and how they interact with you. Don't be discouraged if you have to work your way up the ladder, starting on a well progressed server would help a ton. Try to make friends with people in higher end guilds on your server and do some heroics with them.
I am confused. Why are people trying to defend PUG groups?
Simple question: How many 25 man ICC PUG raids have succeeded. I have PUGged ever since the dungeon finder came out and even before when it was a pain in the rear to get a group.
I will confidentally say that 9 out of 10 PUGs suck rear. Does this mean i was born WOW master and never made mistakes? NO! Hell i am still far from a master.
But anyone who tells you PUG groups are great is just flat out lying through their teeth. If PUGs are so great why does everyone always say run Heroics with GUILDIES to gear up?
2. Whine and cry
3. Blame others for their mistakes
4. Refuse to learn believing they are the best of their class
5. Some just flat out grief players when they dont get the random dungeon they wanted
6. Facepull, facepull, facepull
7. Did i mention they Ninja gear?
8. Are rude, condescending and insulting in the best of situations.
9. Catclysm is here - PUGs fail (if you got a successful heroic PUG your blessed and should buy lottery tickets.
Some of you are thinking maybe its me and not the PUGs. That i very possible. But when i run with guild members we do fine everytime.
But good luck with those wonderful PUGs. PUGs serve ONLY one purpose. That is when your desperate for a dungeon and do not have enough friends online.
I figured I'd update this because perhaps it could benefit other returning players...
Pugs are the most horrible thing in the universe.
I've pug'd over 200 times since my return, started small with WOTLK and quickly ascended to Cata + Cata heroics.
Started out going fully random...What a disaster...Over half of them couldn't function to the normal level of WOTLK much less Cata.
Had more than my share of gear ninja'd...3 swords from the last boss in stonecore...2 hammers...1 shield...It's absolutely amazing.
I could describe some PuG experiences that honestly, I don't really believe happened...Well, they did!!!!!!! And they were horrific!!!!!!!
Then I found a guild and friends...Now, I don't have things ninja'd...I don't scream at my PC "Don't stand there, NO NO NO!"; Cata hero's are actually easy and did I mention, the moron factor has left the building?
Going to be raiding soon, one of the better war's on my server, I'm told and looking forward to doing real content with competant people.
I wanted to touch back and thank you all for your help//advice, it was great hearing from a community of Non-Trolls...That's about it.
Wish you all the best...Don't PuG if you don't have to...Make friends fast and just wtfpwn face.
@Monstrous, good to hear. Yes pugs can be brutal. I'm still not sure why all the "WHY THE PUG BASHING" banter here but for the most part pugs make you want to pull your hair out.