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Thread: am i uncrittable?

  1. #1
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    am i uncrittable?

    ive got healers and guildies saying i might be still critable?
    cause i take alot of damage as a tank on dungeon bosses
    how can i tell if im cirttable or uncrittable?
    and how do a find out how much avoidance i got?
    Last edited by keyalanda; 12-16-2010 at 11:16 PM.

  2. #2
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    Lot you can say in answer to that, but mainly as you've left out a bit of information...Are you running heroics? What level are you playing at? Are your guildies helping with Crowd Control if necessary?

    Your avoidance is the combined Parry, Dodge and Block on your character screen..from what i've been able to find (please shoot me down if wrong) this should be about 97% (base 5% miss chance) combined for heroics.

    Can you supply more info about the situation please?

  3. #3
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    uncrittable comes from talent choice / stances now.

    97% avoidance? Lawl?

    if yuo can get 97% avoidance i ant soem of the crack you've been smoking.

    closer to 30% if you include dodge and have at least a good amount of 333 gear
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  4. #4
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    If i had 97% avoidance I pretty much wouldn't need a healer. lol. well the dps might.

    On topic, like Ill said, uncrittable comes from talents. Those talents are:
    dk's = http://www.wowhead.com/spell=50371
    warriors = http://www.wowhead.com/spell=29594
    pallies = http://www.wowhead.com/spell=84629
    bears= http://www.wowhead.com/spell=16931

    If you have the talents filled out then you are uncrittable as long as the mobs are 4 or more levels above you.

  5. #5
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    I think there may be an underlying misunderstanding here of what "uncrittable" and "unhittable" is somewhere. The 97% figure sounds like what warriors and pallies were able to get as far as "unhittable" goes back in WotLK in full top tier gear (or pre-4.0 in very specialized block sets like for H-Anub25). Unhittable is where a boss never "hits" you but that doesn't mean it's all "avoided" it means any damage that does land on you is blocked, therefore unhittable would be block+dodge+parry+miss = 102.4% against a mob 3 levels higher than you (100% for same level). Now with blizzard getting rid of defense (that used to increase change to be crit, miss, dodge, parry, and block based on the defense rating) got rid of a LOT of that avoidance, and obviously the chance to be crit from defense.

    All mobs have a chance to crit you, that chance is 5% +/- .2% as it varies from your level per level. So if a mob is 84 and you're 85 it has a 4.8% chance to crit you, if a mob is 88 and you're 85 it has a 5.6% chance to crit you.

    This is where the aforementioned talents come in. Because you can spec into a 6% chance to not be crit, no mob you would be fighting should have a chance to crit you at 85 unless there's some special fight mechanic I don't know about.

    As far as avoidance ratings (and unhitability currently) they're pretty low. In 333 gear ~30% dodge+parry is about right, then add in whatever your chance to block is. Avoidance seems like it's actually becoming much much better due to mana limitations of healers, however I have not done nor seen (though admittedly not looked for) the full math breakdown on all of this.

    But ya TL;DR: if you spec into what uglie said, you're uncrittable. idk what this 97% nonsense is about in terms of cata.
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  6. #6
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    97%? 30%? Warriors and paladin are happy about ~ 25% combined dodge/parry and 45% ish block while way under 40k armor (~ 58% damage reduction) in 346 gear and with some reputation epics. Might be a little higher with 2 avoidance trinkets but that's it.

    Use your stuns (single on casters or whirling melees) to smooth out damage and your shorter cooldowns generously on every pack. Still too much damage to handle? Don't run with 2 melee dks and a fury warriors any longer, cc more.

  7. #7
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    Okay so the 97% may have been a remnant of old tanking mechanics...been at this game a while...sorry.

    I have to agree...30% seems very low...My pallys only 83 and comfortable at about 50% avoidance..

    But to go back to orginal post...specifics?

  8. #8
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    well 30% for dk's and bears is about the mark we're at in 346 gear, and block isnt pure avoidance its mroe of a lets roll to see if i shave the damage so im not sure how you'd mathematically calculate blocks raw avoidance value.

    also the higher your level the lower your stats are gna get due to needing mroe rating per actual point of stat.
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  9. #9
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    i am currently
    10.95% Dodge
    12.80% parry
    30.63% Block

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyalanda View Post
    ive got healers and guildies saying i might be still critable?
    cause i take alot of damage as a tank on dungeon bosses
    how can i tell if im cirttable or uncrittable?
    and how do a find out how much avoidance i got?
    Tanks, regardless of class, have a talent in their tanking tree that reduces your chance to be critically hit by 6%. As long as you aren't fighting mobs that are more than 3 levels above you, you are uncrittable. It has nothing to do with avoidance.

    If you have the talent (I believe it's always a 2-point talent, so you must have two points in it for it to work properly), but are still getting hammered, it could be you aren't making smart use of your tanking cooldowns (damage-reducing abilities), or it could be that your group needs to use more crowd control on mobs, if we're talking about trash pulls. That's just how it is now.
    Last edited by Bashal; 12-17-2010 at 07:46 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamhead View Post
    I have to agree...30% seems very low...My pallys only 83 and comfortable at about 50% avoidance..
    wait till you hit 85. With the way all the ratings scale at 85, your avoidance will be extremely low. It's a complete stat/gear reset at 85, basically. 30% avoidance actually sounds pretty damn good to me.
    Last edited by Bashal; 12-17-2010 at 07:49 AM.

  12. #12
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    One thing to keep in mind is that Blizzard can create effects which would introduce crits back to the combat table. The -6% chance to be crit eliminates the base crit value of a mob three levels higher than yourself (5.4%) from critting you. Stinky and Precious back in ICC could crit the tank and they were only elites that were two levels higher than the tank, not three levels higher. This is simply because those mobs had a higher chance to crit. Some rogue type mobs have had elevated crit chance in the past relative to their level. Thorim had an ability which reduced your defense skill which behind the scenes is still what determines this combat table (while you don't actually see weapon skill and defense skill on your character sheet anymore, it is still used in the calculations). So if there is a mechanic which increases weapon skill or decreases defense skill it will also cause you to become critable.

    While the talent alone effectively removes crit from the combat table for anything three levels higher than yourself and lower, there can be exceptions to this rule.

    In regard do damage taken, that depends on the context. It could simply be something like an enrage where the a mob just hits harder for a period of time. Or a mob got behind you and was hitting more frequently (less avoidance). Or someone missed an interrupt on an ability. Or you didn't get out of the way of an ability you should. There are lots of reasons why damage could spike other than being crit. Though if you are really paranoid about it you could get something to monitor your deaths such as Recount which can list events leading up to your death.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illidra View Post
    well 30% for dk's and bears is about the mark we're at in 346 gear
    I can't wait to get 30% avoidance, then again I've been doing 1600 hps on bosses lol - healer's? Blood DK's dont' need no stink'in healers.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamhead View Post
    Okay so the 97% may have been a remnant of old tanking mechanics...been at this game a while...sorry.

    I have to agree...30% seems very low...My pallys only 83 and comfortable at about 50% avoidance..

    But to go back to orginal post...specifics?
    Be careful you don't confuse avoidance with block. Blocking is a mitigation mechanic, not an avoidance mechanic. Total avoidance is Dodge+Parry+Miss. I can't remember how it scaled, but I was at about 50% avoidance at level 80 IIRC, so you shouldn't still be at 50% avoidance at 83, unless you picked up a lot of 333 gear. Even then, probably not.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyalanda View Post
    i am currently
    10.95% Dodge
    12.80% parry
    30.63% Block
    I would definitely pick up and reforge for more mastery. For warriors (and i believe pallies) mastery improves chance to block which will smooth out incoming melee damage which helps your healer as well as give you more rage for warriors.
    If someone that can get a pally past lvl 7 elaborate on mastery for prot pallies that would be great.

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