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Thread: After 75% [warrior]

  1. #1
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    After 75% [warrior]

    So, when we stack mastery to reach the 75% mark... what next?

    A general idea of the stats would be 25% dodge/parry, 50% block.

    Seems like the effectiveness drops pretty dramatically once you reach this number (unhittable with shield block active).

    Also, to reach this number, it seems like we will only have a combined 20-25% dodge/parry. Should we try and bring this up? Or just keep stacking on the mastery trying to reach unhittable without shield block and for the crit block, or just start stacking stam?

  2. #2
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    Block is only 30% damage reduction. Does it not make more sense to stack up more dodge/parry until you hit the DR's on both before stacking mastery? I would think a better model would be 30-40% dodge/parry with 35-40% block...
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  3. #3
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    the idea is to hit unhittability as fast as possible, because that effectively makes you have a 30% shield wall all the time. and using shield block now is just a means to push your critical block chance even higher or to a reliable % since you know the only hits you'll take are blocks. mastery scales faster than dodge/parry, the 75% number i threw up a while ago wasn't about mastery vs dodge/parry it was about the effectiveness of using the armor meta gem, vs the 5% block meta gem.

    I'd say whatever you can get your hands on, to push unhittability is best, which in my opinion is going to be mastery because of lack of DRs. it's not like you just "hit DRs" at some number, DRs are constant, so you'll always be getting less overall unhittability value from dodge/parry than from mastery.

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MellvarTank View Post
    Block is only 30% damage reduction. Does it not make more sense to stack up more dodge/parry until you hit the DR's on both before stacking mastery? I would think a better model would be 30-40% dodge/parry with 35-40% block...

    Thats how I felt in the beginning until I was convinced otherwise by many healers I speak with. Even though overall dmg intake is abit higher, it is very consistent. Therefore, healers are able to predict as you recieve damage and get into a "rotation" of sorts and be able to preserve mana better. Not only does this help them better preserve damage, they can safely heal someone other then you when they feel its safe, and it not cause a wipe due to bad RNG where you would have several hits in a row without dodges/parries.

    Atleast, this is what I have recently been convinced of. Is it 100% the right way to do things... maybe not. Its just the route I and some others are taking. If I ever see (solid) evidence that this is the wrong way to go, I will go back to stacking up dodge/parry before mastery.

    EDIT:
    Just saw your post Kazeyonoma.

    Thanks for your input, Ill just keep stacking mastery.

  5. #5
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    The math behind mastery's effectiveness dropping drastically after 75% was based off of shield block only increasing block chance by 25%. With the current shield block mechanic also increasing crit block chance... the drop-off after 75% is very minimal. I agree with Kaz, factoring all the benefits of block (meta, threat/damage from rage), my primary focus is just getting as close to unhittable as possible.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takethecake View Post
    The math behind mastery's effectiveness dropping drastically after 75% was based off of shield block only increasing block chance by 25%. With the current shield block mechanic also increasing crit block chance... the drop-off after 75% is very minimal. I agree with Kaz, factoring all the benefits of block (meta, threat/damage from rage), my primary focus is just getting as close to unhittable as possible.

    I never actually saw the math on this, do you know where it can be found?

  7. #7
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    It was mostly on the tankspot beta forum... not sure if any of that data was transferred anywhere or if it just went away after cata released.

  8. #8
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    feeling like a nub all over again

    so should i be reforging as much of my dodge or parry to mastery until i hit 75%?

  9. #9
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    You should reforge all those expertise and hit on your gear into mastery and if not avaible reforge either dodge or parry depending on what's higher. Should bring you to something like combined ~70% with the actual gear status.

  10. #10
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    As a warrior tank would you not have concerns about having very low hit and exp values (for threat maintenance)? I understand working towards being un-hittable but I would have equal concerns about threat management.

  11. #11
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    yeah I'm wondering about having low hit and expertise as well. and how high should your block percentage be?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gishomil View Post
    As a warrior tank would you not have concerns about having very low hit and exp values (for threat maintenance)? I understand working towards being un-hittable but I would have equal concerns about threat management.
    I wouldn't worry about threat atm ... I am in an oceanic top 10 guild and I'm working with some extremely high dps I have reforged every bit of hit and expertise into mastery and i have 0 threat problems at all. btw valor point cap is stupid qq.

    Dodge: 11%
    Parry: 14%
    Block:50%
    Expertise: 10
    Hit Rating: 77

    all unbuffed
    Last edited by Sirloinsteak; 12-20-2010 at 07:26 PM.

  13. #13
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    Why bother with hit and expertise? First entry in heroics is about proper CC and not about as much threat as possible. But after seeing your gear i'd recommend finish certain questlines first and grab those 333 rewards quickly.

  14. #14
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    Did they change the chance to miss or why isnt it mentioned?
    Last edited by arctus; 12-21-2010 at 05:18 AM.

  15. #15
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    I don't get the after 75% to be honest. Even if you're a robot hitting shield block every 30 seconds exactly when it is of cooldown you'll still have 20 out of 30 seconds after that where you suffer a not avoided, not blocked hit. right? I'd think the ultimate goal would be to reach a constant unhitteable.

    I am definitely convinced that mastery is what my healers will want me to have at this gear level, so that's what I'll do. I'm guessing unhitteable will be very nice for add tanking later on.

    @arctus
    Also, I was under the impression that miss didn't get removed, just our way to stack defense rating to improve our chance to be missed.
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  16. #16
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    yeah with the change to shield block to any unused block% to get pushed towards crit block chance, there's zero reason to stop at 75%, just keep pushing for 102.4% and even then it just makes shield block into a threat/crit block cooldown.

    and they didn't change chance to miss, it's 5% and that's it, since there's no defense you can't add to your chance to be missed anymore, so it's just 5%

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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  17. #17
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    You could go night elf. :P

  18. #18
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    If the goal is getting your block as high as possible, should i just gem all 40 mastery gems and only go for mastery socket bonus and if not how should i gem?

  19. #19
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    Block won't help you with aoe and magic attacks in general so i'd recommend still gem for stamina (blue), stamina/mastery (yellow) and stamina/parry (red) until you have enough gear to swap around for every encounter.

  20. #20
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    Sure, block doesn't help me live through magical attacks. However, every tank's primary toolbox gears them towards dealing with physical damage. Now I haven't seen any of the raids yet, but unless there's magical attacks that simply 1 or 2 shot you (possibly combined with a normal melee swing) then there's not that much of a reason to go stacking stamina. I'm a firm believer of effective health, but I think it's best applied in gearing for pushing/progressing through burst damage encounters.

    The talks I've had with my healers made me see that at the end of their mana bar they usually still have people alive and then the party/raid whatever slowly withers down. Healers like a regulated damage intake, so they can get into the swing of things and time their heals to your damage intake. Long avoidance strings are 'bad' because healers might waste mana on a heal that's not needed. Being a mana sponge with a ton of health isn't all that because your healer will just run out of mana. Block is so good because it regulates our damage intake.

    Also, my toon's a night elf, mistersix. (has been, and most likely will be)
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