The Cataclysmic fury Warrior Guide

[balane]

yes, of course, you'll still hit HS if you're swimming in rage, but your rotation will basically be based around hitting BT, RB, CS, and now actually using your Slam procs from bloodsurge instead of just stacking hit so you can spam HS consistently. use HS if you have lots of rage, otherwise, just keep up the bt/rb/cs/slam usage.

As of now these are pretty much my exact intentions when 4.06 goes live. Forging everything into crit and see just how little hit I can get away with and keep my rotation alive. Maybe it will change but this is what I'm going to be using initially.

Just think of all the goodness this patch will bring us; lots of strength gems, a perfect meta, sockets in crafted gear, and most importantly being able to stack pure damage-numbers-increasing secondary stats and not rage generating stats. I honestly can't wait to play the new fury warrior because I'm not a huge fan of this one.

[Bung]

I agree balane, and in addition making SMF viable with basically the same rotation is exciting. I don't know about most of you but lava spines are really easy to get with so little competition.

[Baba]

I am really hoping SMF is equally viable to TG with equal level gear. They fucked the 2H loot tables imo. We can get 2-3 caster weapons just farming trash, and more from bosses. But if the 2h doesn't drop that week? yep, screwed again, and competition is huge with ret pallies, DK's and arms wars. I wish that BOE fist weapon set was both str. Would be great for me with orc racial. But will have to go sword MH + fist/sword OH.

[Krenian]

Nice thing about SMF is that all they honestly need to do is tweak that percentage that SMF gives until it works out to be the same as TG. It'll offset the stat loss you would go by using SMF weapons.

[Yves]

I am not sure but i am having a serious issue with misses in raids.
Running with 13.57%(1269) hit, 17.31%(1747) crit.

And last night we did Bastion and for example on Halfus i was having 12.6% misses.

This sounds a lot to me, not sure if it can be avoid, or if i should consider it normal with not being able to hit cap.

[Loganisis]

28% is white hit cap, you have 13.57%, meaning that 14.43% is your chance for melee (white) to miss. Looks like you had a good hit streak going there, as you would expect it to be 14.43% miss, on average.

Check your yellow attacks (BT, RB, etc) I doubt you'll see any misses.

Your miss rate was actually higher in Wrath, when your target was 8% (including precision). Nothing is wrong here.

[Yves]

Oh yeah your right, was totally not thinking about BT, RB etc...
Was getting confused thought i did something wrong on my reforging.

guess i need some sleep haha.

Thanks for pointing that out.

[Sylvás]

I seem to have missed something massive, if someone could explain to me why going down to the 8% hit cap in the next patch is going to be better DPS?

The way the rotation is working on live with high hit is essentially the standard priority of CS - BT - RB - BS Slam and using HS every time it's available, if you can afford it without causing you to be unable to use one of the 3 above abilities. I understand that we are getting sizeable buffs to our key rotation abilities, but if we continue with a high level of hit we should still be able to spam HS as much as we do now. Even though it will hit for much less, it's still going to be doing damage, but more importantly it doesn't use a GCD so there isn't a downside so long as you can continue to use your rotation abilities.

I don't understand how going down to such low levels of hit is going to be beneficial if it means we cannot use as many HS's, considering we don't lose anything by using it. Can anyone clarify what i'm missing? In my mind pressing an extra button that does a good amount of damage is still going to be worth 4-5% extra crit chance, surely?

[gacktt]

Are we actually getting a DPS buff overall with 4.0.6? we got some good damage buffs but we'll definitely not want to heroic strike until we're at like 75 rage or something cause its so weak.

[Loganisis]

No one is saying go down to 8%. But 20%+ will be wasted rating as well since you will hit HS far less. Right now more hit gives more rage allowing you to use HS more, which hits for a crapload.

In 4.0.6 HS is getting rolled back by 20%, so it's importance will be far less (a true rage dump) so you will only 'need' enough rage to keep BT-RB-BT-Slam/Free GCD with CS on CD going. When you get to that point (which will be lower for Fury warriros that run with Surv Hunters or Frost DKs) you'll go crit and mastery as they will have better return per rating.

[Sky]

This is a fun thread to read!

[Sylvás]

No one is saying go down to 8%. But 20%+ will be wasted rating as well since you will hit HS far less. Right now more hit gives more rage allowing you to use HS more, which hits for a crapload.

In 4.0.6 HS is getting rolled back by 20%, so it's importance will be far less (a true rage dump) so you will only 'need' enough rage to keep BT-RB-BT-Slam/Free GCD with CS on CD going. When you get to that point (which will be lower for Fury warriros that run with Surv Hunters or Frost DKs) you'll go crit and mastery as they will have better return per rating.

My point is who has said we should hit HS far less? It hits like a truck on live, and a 20-35% nerf isn't going to make it useless. If we can opt to retain our current rage generation, and continue to press it nearly every cooldown, then surely that will outweigh the buff of having additional crit/mastery?

I guess i have to hit the PTR to try it out myself, but i'm still not convinced that going from high hit to more crit/mastery is going to outweigh additional HS's, even in it's nerfed state.

[Thegreatme]

Raging blow is getting a very significant buff in the form of buffs to mastery and war academy affecting raging blow. HS usage will not go to 0, I guarantee it; it will however be a less attractive ability. Even right now crits value is greater than hit's but it's subject to large variances in DPS due to RNG and player error.

With 8% hit we will still have more than enough rage generation to maintain our RB/BT/CS usage 100%, sure RNG can make it difficult at times but it will by no means be impossible.

EDIT: further proof HS's damage per rage is going to be abysmal and that itemizing around getting more HS's is not the best option:

HS damage:
1.21*(.60*(AP+8))=.726(AP+8)=0.726AP+5.808

Damage per rage:
(1/30)*(0.726AP+5.808) = 0.0242ap+0.1923

For all practical purposes you can drop the 0.1923, leaving you with just 0.0242AP

Using a value of 15000 ap lets put some numbers out there:

Damage during CS:10890
DPR during CS:363

for damage outside of CS you need to tack on a (26070/(26070+11977)) to the front of the equation
Damage outside of CS: 7461.88
DPR outside of CS:248

versus something like BT:
assuming you have the 2pc t11 bonus
damage 1.39755*(AP*.62) = 0.866481*AP
DPR: (0.866481*AP)*1/20 = 0.04332405*AP

during CS
damage: 12997
DPR: 649.86

Outside CS:
damage: 8905.75
DPR:445.28

[Sylvás]

Can we effectively compare HS's new damage to any other ability though? What i am suggesting is that we continue to use HS as we do currently, without sacrificing BT, RB or any of our other core abilities. Will having additional mastery and crit chance convincingly outweigh less heroic strike usage, and a few extra white hits?

Bad doesn't sum up how terrible i am at the math side of this, so apologies for driving the point but it seems very difficult to measure what causes more DPS, additional ability usage or additional secondary stats which is why i'm having troubles grasping the gearing changes.

[Loganisis]

Hopefully I don't screw this up... if I do, I'll delete it, but for example, going from 16% hit to 10% hit would give you something like 720 rating points. 720 rating points is 4 mastery (or some amount of crit). Just looking at mastery at the 4.0.6 rate of 1 mastery gives enraged abilities/abilities requireing enrage 5.7% boost... That's 22.8%... So:

RB would be damage * 1.228
DW's 1.3 would be buffed by current mastery + .228 (so if you have 10 mastery currently, for .57 mastery, adding 4 more would make it .789 [.57 + .228]... So... instead of deathwish being damage * 1.3 (30% damage buff) it would be.... damage * (1.3*1.789).... If I'm not screwing this up.

Recklessness would also be affected (how I'm not sure)... Not DPS but Enraged Regneration also... I think there are 1 or 2 more I'm forgetting.



So it isn't that HS's aren't nice, it's that the rating points that give you more HS will end up giving you more to your other abilities (crit or mastery) in 4.0.6.

Hopefully this is fairly accurate and doesn't muddy the water.

[Warscar]

They say that even on Live, picking Crit > Hit is a small DPS gain. Therefore, when the patch hits and HS is weaker, the Hit build will fall even more behind, making Crit >> Hit. The new Stat priority will be like:

Hit Cap = Exp Cap > Str > Crit > Mastery > Hit > Haste

[balane]

I've seen a few PTR guys put hit-over-8% even below Haste on the pecking order.

With so much haste on our T11 gear (4 pieces for some reason I'm not smart enough to comprehend.) it would be nice if that's the case.

I assume thegreatme will be updating this thread at some point so I'll be checking back with his findings. There's a handful of guys who I try to keep track of on fury dps info, this is definitely one of those.

[Loganisis]

Hit > Haste. It generates more rage per 1% (and requires the same rating) and results in a lower chance of miss strings.

That being said - because blizzard loves to make you scream with itemization, in full valor gear, you probably won't need more than 8% hit, even reforging haste into crit/mastery just because you'll have enough hit and haste to maintain your rotation.

I'd be interested in seeing why some think haste is more valuable. It doesn't affect ability CD (so doesn't increase RB/CS etc) and is not as good for rage or for landing attacks as hit.

[Baba]

So should I reforge haste into hit (when haste/hit are the only options)?
e.g. I am expertise capped, I have 1119 haste, 18.92% hit (with talents). I have an item with crit and haste. Should I reforge the haste into hit?

[balane]

Today you would reforge the haste on your example item into Hit.

From Tuesday morning forward you'll be reforging that haste into Mastery.