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Thread: The Cataclysmic fury Warrior Guide

  1. #121
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    The stat weight is a big question that I'm pretty sure is still being debated. I would like a "hard" number answer too like "15% hit is your goal", but unfortunately it doesn't exist. This problem will be reviewed again by theory people like TGM after the next patch. I really believe for now the right thing to do is to reforge expertise to soft cap first. Secondly reforge crit on gear that has hit, and reforge hit on gear that has crit. Reforge from haste and mastery.

  2. #122
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    hey guys
    (long time reader, first time poster).
    First of all, let's say the obvious : Super interesting thread so far ! The guide is also awesome and helped me a lot to improve both my rotations and understand the (current) stats priority.

    The only thing I still have hard time to decide/find is what's BiS heroic gear (PRE-RAID) for our class; based on the last thoughts developed in this thread.

    http://www.maxdps.com is of course a good base but I thought I could ask here if you guys would have any thoughts about that

    -Palh
    Last edited by Palhbook; 01-22-2011 at 10:39 PM.

  3. #123
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    Hi (long time reader first poster)

    very nice guide for sure,

    personaly i prefer this build, http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LGZIrrcszkofdZh:zkmrwV0mc
    as for rotation.

    i dont use a specifice one, usually open with (Heroic throw) then (Sunder Armor) then (Colossus Smash), after i have 3 stacks of sunder armor my attacks is like this:

    1- Slam, if Bloodsurg is up .
    2- Raging blow when its up.
    3- Heroic strike whenever i have 60+ rage OR battle shout are ready.
    4- and ofc bloodthirst.

    after that colossus smash if its up to restack sunder armor.

    and i save recklessness for excution.. and use deathwish whenever there is a little tougher enemies.

    Hope this helps.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Kongolo View Post
    Hi (long time reader first poster)

    very nice guide for sure,

    personaly i prefer this build, http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LGZIrrcszkofdZh:zkmrwV0mc
    as for rotation.
    For PvP that spec is fine. It takes the self healing talents and the MS affect on your auto attacks.

    From a PvE stand point though, those talents are wasted on potential DPS gains in the arms tree. In PvE you shouldn't be getting hit, that's the tanks job. The 3/3 in Blood Craze is therefor wasted and much better spent elsewhere. 8/31/2 or 7/31/3 are typical PvE specs because they use as many DPS talents as possible.

    Long story short: more DPS > a little self healing.

  5. #125
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    slam is out lowest damaging ability right now, and will continue to be after the patch. prioritizing slam over something else if you have the rage to do something else is a DPS loss.

    |TGM UI |Fury Warrior Guide | How To Use Landsoul's Spreadsheet| The Numbers Game |
    "I am an elitist; I will never accept mediocrity and I openly show no respect for stupidity"


  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincenoir View Post
    For PvP that spec is fine. It takes the self healing talents and the MS affect on your auto attacks.

    From a PvE stand point though, those talents are wasted on potential DPS gains in the arms tree. In PvE you shouldn't be getting hit, that's the tanks job. The 3/3 in Blood Craze is therefor wasted and much better spent elsewhere. 8/31/2 or 7/31/3 are typical PvE specs because they use as many DPS talents as possible.

    Long story short: more DPS > a little self healing.
    well, you will get hit sometimes and healers focusing much more on keeping tanks alive (specially after cata).

    as for slam, should i take the 3 points from bloodsurg..? untill further notic/update :P

    1 more question, how far do i need to go with hit-rate? currently i have 5.69% - 8.69%


    Thx in advance
    Last edited by Kongolo; 01-24-2011 at 01:01 PM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kongolo View Post
    well, you will get hit sometimes and healers focusing much more on keeping tanks alive (specially after cata).

    as for slam, should i take the 3 points from bloodsurg..? untill further notic/update :P

    1 more question, how far do i need to go with hit-rate? currently i have 5.69% - 8.69%


    Thx in advance
    If you're getting hit, then you need to check your aggro or the tank needs to check his. Either way, in current content Blood Craze will never mean the difference between life and death, especially as a DPS.

    As for slam, while it is our lowest damage move and should only be used when nothing else is available, Bloodsurge is still worth putting points into, simply because there are often times when we have no abilities left to use other than slam, and not having Bloodsurge up would mean wasting a GCD completely.

    With hit rating, after achieving your 8% special (yellow) cap, and 26/26 expertise (dodge cap) you should ideally be aiming for 27% hit rating (white cap) to produce a steady rate of rage income. This will likely not be achievable however until heroic raid gear this tier, or until next tier. It is still the best path to focus down and you should be aiming to get there regardless.

    Hope this helped,

    Cheers

  8. #128
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    Do I have my post 4.06 gear information correct? (Assuming the patch notes on the PTR as they now stand will remain in their current state.) Fury PVE

    Meta: Str + 3% crit dmg
    Gem as much red as possible but take advantage of useful socket bonuses like +10 str or crit. But I want to pile the strength on with gems as much as possible.

    Reforging;

    hit to soft cap > exp cap > crit > mastery > hit to hard cap > haste

    Is this accurate and will yield the best raid boss dps after patch goes live?

    Thanks.

  9. #129
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    hit cap > exp cap > crit > mastery > haste > hard cap hit after patch. also, smf is looking like the way to go if everything stays the same right now on ptr, or at least dead even with tg.
    -Jimmy

    |Ex Tank|

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  10. #130
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    "Hit(till 8%) > Expertise(till 26) > Strength >[ Hit> Haste](until Rage generation is adequate) > Crit > Mastery > Hit> Haste"

    So I’m having a hard time understanding this stat priority thing. I’m looking for a more in depth explanation to the above. (Just for reference my dps ranges from 9k-11k at times "overall" sometimes 19k but that's per trash pull and its AoE so i wouldn't really count that)

    I've read through some of the post here (obviously not all of them) and what I’m seeing is i want 8% hit and 26/26 expertise then everything else goes into Hit basically for reforging and try and get to the (currently unreachable) hit cap.

    How and when should I be using Str, crit, and haste gems in my gear? as well as using my reforges for such things? (except in the extreme case my gear contains both hit and exp stats)

    If the hit cap is unreachable atm (this has been fairly obvious for some time) then why on earth would i consider putting points into things like Haste, Str, and Crit?

    If you say for rage generation could you please explain to me how i can tell if I’m gaining enough rage? Right now i feel I’m gaining it a smooth pace but there are at time when i need to Interrupt and I just won’t have any for that split second. I usually conserve/watch my rage on bosses as I should be so i don't run into that problem there, just on trash like in BWC or minor things, but my starts aren’t prioritized like you have set above, mainly everything is in hit atm with a lil here and there set towards Exp.

    I’m going to reforge tonight so that i get 26/26 expertise as advised and then stack what’s left into hit.(i have a good amount to stack into hit atm so getting past 8% + 26/26 is no problem.) However I’d like to hear back from the author or someone else before i go and re gem my gear.

    I know that's a lot of text, sorry, but thank you anyone willing to answer me
    . (Fraya Armory)

  11. #131
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    trying to get to 27% hit is pointless since you don't need that much hit. don't reforge everything into hit, after a few raids you should have an idea of your rage gen and be able to reforge haste and extra hit into crit. if you can keep your rotation going without rage starving then you have good rage gen and don't need excess hit.
    -Jimmy

    |Ex Tank|

    TWITCH.TV STREAM


  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destruyen View Post
    trying to get to 27% hit is pointless since you don't need that much hit. don't reforge everything into hit, after a few raids you should have an idea of your rage gen and be able to reforge haste and extra hit into crit. if you can keep your rotation going without rage starving then you have good rage gen and don't need excess hit.
    I have to disagree with this, at least how it currently is on live, though i highly doubt it will change come the patch, unless there is a big change i am unaware of.

    At the moment, other than strength and the obvious hit/exp caps, getting our soft cap for hit is the SAFEST and most stable income for rage generation. While crit will have a positive effect on your rage income, it isn't guaranteed and when it does spike, you usually cannot spend it all quick enough with our rage dump (inner rage) working how it currently is. Whether this single move will change our gearing ideology come the patch, i can't say but personally i highly doubt it.

    So to sum up, in my view, if you want stable, consistent DPS from boss to boss then i would aim for the 27% hit cap before thinking of crit/haste/mastery as crit is not the best way to guarantee rage income.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvás View Post
    ... i highly doubt it will change come the patch, unless there is a big change i am unaware of.
    This. Actually there is such a change, since Heroic Strike damage is getting nerfed so much there is not much need to go for so much hit as to be able to hit Heroic Strike on a regular basis. Basically you only need to keep up Bloodthirst, Raging Blow and Clolossus Smash.

  14. #134
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    With heroic strike out of the picture rage gen is a non-factor. After patch I'll be going as close t0 8% as I can get without going under and reforging everything I can into crit and mastery. Anything gem related will be for strength boosts.

    The other day I tried a low hit build (~9.5%) in Baradin's Hold on live. I removed HS from my rotation on the boss just to test my rage, it was replaced with procced Slam (Which is what I'll be using in 4.06) My rage was fine throughout the entire fight, never starved.

    Personally I'm very much looking forward to the patch and dumping all my over hit.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by balane View Post
    With heroic strike out of the picture rage gen is a non-factor. After patch I'll be going as close t0 8% as I can get without going under and reforging everything I can into crit and mastery. Anything gem related will be for strength boosts.

    The other day I tried a low hit build (~9.5%) in Baradin's Hold on live. I removed HS from my rotation on the boss just to test my rage, it was replaced with procced Slam (Which is what I'll be using in 4.06) My rage was fine throughout the entire fight, never starved.

    Personally I'm very much looking forward to the patch and dumping all my over hit.
    How did your dps compare to a high hit build?

    I was stacked up to ~22% hit, but because of the impending heroic strike nerfs and rotational buffs, I have it down to around 15% to practice with lower rage, etc.

    I definitely feel like my DPS has gone down, not due to rage starvation, but definitely do to significantly less heroic strikes. Since it will be hitting for a lot less post patch, I guess this is still the right mindset, but at the moment with how hard heroic strike hits I can't see a low hit build putting out more dps.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvás View Post
    So to sum up, in my view, if you want stable, consistent DPS from boss to boss then i would aim for the 27% hit cap before thinking of crit/haste/mastery as crit is not the best way to guarantee rage income.
    There is no need for hit after 20% and if you really are good at managing rage then even 16% is enough. Anything after 20% and you still have rage problems you are doing something really wrong. Not to mention you will be gimping your other stats BIG TIME. After the patch drops it will be interesting to see if 8% is viable again because if it is our BIS list and itemization will change drastically. We will be able to focus on stats that will increase our numbers more like Str and Crit.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by mallevolent View Post
    How did your dps compare to a high hit build?

    I was stacked up to ~22% hit, but because of the impending heroic strike nerfs and rotational buffs, I have it down to around 15% to practice with lower rage, etc.

    I definitely feel like my DPS has gone down, not due to rage starvation, but definitely do to significantly less heroic strikes. Since it will be hitting for a lot less post patch, I guess this is still the right mindset, but at the moment with how hard heroic strike hits I can't see a low hit build putting out more dps.
    Well this was on live so I wasn't using HS and my dps suffered. I was only testing my rage generation with low hit and no HS. It was fine. I won't even be using HS, well seldom, after the patch goes live.

    Right now on live I'm running 12% hit, stacking crit instead, and my DPS is roughly the same as when I was running ~17%, maybe a little better but I do have to watch my rage closely currently. I can tell the biggest drop on my DPS during heavy interupt fights where I must have rage available all the time. That's really the only time I miss my hit.

  18. #138
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    Even after patch, why wouldn't you be using HS? IF you have the rage, it's extra damage you'll do that doesn't cost GCD. IF you have the extra rage, there is nothing else to do with it.

    It will be lame if we're just pushing 1 button most of the time (BT) and a 2nd button sometimes (RB) and a 3rd every 20s (CS).

  19. #139
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    yes, of course, you'll still hit HS if you're swimming in rage, but your rotation will basically be based around hitting BT, RB, CS, and now actually using your Slam procs from bloodsurge instead of just stacking hit so you can spam HS consistently. use HS if you have lots of rage, otherwise, just keep up the bt/rb/cs/slam usage.

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  20. #140
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    Having downgraded the importance of HS, you will probably see a less sizable amount of focus on Hit like we do now. In a way, Blizzard fixed our problem of wanting so much hit by de-emphasizing Heroic Strike in this fashion.

    It's a shame but it seems like we'll mostly focus on our main attacks and just HS as a dump, one of those "Eh, Okay, my rage is getting up there, might wanna dump it so I don't cap it and I do more damage while I got everything on CD." One of those last resort type of deals.

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