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Thread: The Cataclysmic fury Warrior Guide

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kongolo View Post
    first of slam, raging blow and heroic stike has conditions to be used, if the conditions are met its always BT (which is most of the time what i use)
    2nd, raging blow dont suck! its the highest dmg but lower proc rate, and higher recast.
    3rd the good thing about heroic stike is it doesnt share the global cooldown.
    My post was made thinking he is SMF, where we prioritize BT over RB, always.
    But how is it a "higher recast? i dont get it.

    And heroic strike being off the GCD doesnt change that its nothing but a rage dump.

    Your list is somewhat correct if he is TG. but id still rather see a priorety list used, they tend to explain the rotation much better.

    TG would be
    CS>RB>BT>SLAM!

    where SMF would be
    CS>BT>RB/SLAM! (depending on mastery)
    Last edited by squats; 03-08-2011 at 12:48 PM.

  2. #302
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    your thoughts on Ask Mr. Robot? found it helpfull for me but would like to hear if its helping others.

  3. #303
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    I tried it for prot and furry spec and it seemed to give sound advice, but I can't guarantee it's the best tool out there (it's quite convinient though).

    I've been dabbling in fury for the last couple of weeks and while my gear isn't outstanding I've managed to push my single target dps on a dummy above 11k. I'm a feral at heart so getting used to spaming abilites not to miss a GCD took a while to get used to and while I'm fairly comfortable with single target dps (I started out with around 11% hit and dropped it down to just a bit above 8% and I rage starve from time to time, even with dropping HS usage to a bare minimum), I'm still unsure about multi target "rotation".

    I've read two different guidelines, one saying you should Cleave on every cooldown disregarding Whirlwind entirely and another set of opinions claiming you should keep Whirlwind on CD (while having 3 stacks of Meat Cleaver of course). Which one would be most accurate? How important it is to BT>CS>RB(>Slam!) the selected target, does Cleave (and WW) come at the start of the line or at the back of the line? I also find myself rage starved during AoE situations a lot.

    What's the optimal dps with two targets?

    Thanks for taking your time.

  4. #304
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    Added the below text to the guide, if there is anything I missed or could have explained better, let me know.


    Mastery Vs. Hit

    there is a lot of interest in determining the best stat to reforge for when unable to reforge to crit. Mastery and hit are the 2 contenders for these cases.

    About Mastery:

    It affects our enrage effects and our RB, also the effect of this is not heavily altered by external sources of rage like hit is.
    It allows for much higher burst potential.
    There appears to be a soft cap where mastery will no longer increase the damage increases provided by enrage and deathwish, but will continue to increase RB damage. (Needs confirmation)
    Mastery is devalued for SMF in comparison to TG due to 1-handed weapons hitting for much less than 2-handed weapons.

    About Hit:

    Getting more hit increases rage generation, which allows for using HS more.
    Increases enrage uptime by increasing the number of hits that land on a target (more chances to proc)
    External sources of rage (Raid damage) can significantly reduce the value of hit due to rage capping.
    Having more hit can make playing fury "easier" because you are less likely to stay rage starved with high amounts of hit compared to when you have low amounts of hit.



    Which one to choose:
    Currently there isn't a truly set in stone answer to this question (at least in my mind, some will argue otherwise) due to the limitations of modeling incoming damage taken and a myriad of other nuances that can heavily alter the outcomes of simulations; despite this, the general consensus is that Mastery is better in a raiding environment, and I would tend to agree.
    That being said the majority of the people running the numbers on this stuff are deep in to hardmodes, and as a result of this we are generally highly skilled and have been playing fury for a while. Because of this we are usually less likely to make a rage management error than someone who is newer to playing fury. My suggestion is that if you are confident in your playing ability, then itemize for mastery; but if you are new to playing fury then I would suggest running with some extra hit, then slowly changing that extra hit over to mastery as you get more comfortable with playing the spec.

    |TGM UI |Fury Warrior Guide | How To Use Landsoul's Spreadsheet| The Numbers Game |
    "I am an elitist; I will never accept mediocrity and I openly show no respect for stupidity"


  5. #305
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    I would like to give my input on this matter of Hit vs Mastery. After 4.1 hits i think the choice will be a no-brainier if the current build stands.

    Precision (passive) now increase auto-attack damage by 40%, in addition to the 3% hit it offers currently.

    Unshackled Fury now only grants 2 base points of mastery, down from 8.
    This along with the large nerf we are expecting to get with both slam and RB shows me that mastery is going back to becoming a near useless stat.

    Enraged Regeneration - Enraged, and new Enrage effects may not be gained while active.
    Slam now deals 145% damage plus 624, down from 174% weapon damage plus 748.
    Whirlwind now reduces the cooldown when it hits targets with the main-hand weapon.
    Raging Blow now deals 100% weapon damage, down from 120%.
    As this is all from the PRT it is subject to change, however the drop to our mastery has been standing for some time so it seem reasonable to say that our primary stats will be Str>Crit>Hit.

    Also i think blizz was clear in one of there announcements that they are not looking to nerf warriors, but instead reduce our burst dmg in pvp. Will this really do the trick with out disrupting where we stand in pve?

    /shrug, I'm not a numbers expert so i guess we'll find out.
    Is everyone enjoying the Ca-tack-a-lisim? are you playing as a wor-gen? or a Goblin?

  6. #306
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    As a preface to these questions, Id like to state that the only explicitly values stat-weightings Ive been able to find are the wowhead ones : 100 STR, 90 EXP, 90 HIT, 80 CRIT, 70 MASTERY, 50 HASTE, and I cant say that I trust them since they dont scale to accommodate soft or hard caps, or diminishing returns, or returns relative to other stats.

    What is the relative value of STR vs HIT and CRIT? Im wondering if I should gem for pure STR where the slot bonuses are only +10 STR or +20 crit... I have 3 blue slots and 1 yellow slot I am currently matching for the slot bonuses, but I could swap them for pure STR for a gain of +50 STR for a loss of -60 HIT and -40 CRIT... is this worth doing? Im currently at 8.96% hit, 19.27% crit & 5096 STR unbuffed.

    I am also curious, as I am an orc I get an expertise bonus for using axes; I currently have an Akirus the Worm-Breaker with landslide for main-hand and a Vicious Gladiator's Decapitator with avalanche for offhand, and 26/29 expertise respectively... Ive been trying to replace my pvp offhand with another Akirus or whatever else I can get my hand on but it hasnt happened yet and may not for some time (currently still working on cho'gall, haven't started nef and don't bother farming archaeology), so I want to know : Ive got these weapons equipped to the correct hands and with the optimum value of expertise respectively, right? before I picked up landslide on my Akirus I was using the Decapitator mainhand, with 26/23 expertise since I figured my Bloodthirst and Heroic strikes would all be coming off mainhand anyway... so If I were to currently give my Decapitator a landslide enchant, would it then be a good idea to return to this arrangement of axe mainhand > other offhand?

    Lastly, I am conflicted when it comes to choosing which rings to equip. I currently have both epic PvP rings, which have the biggest STR prior to heroic raid rings and also each have a good secondary stat (CRIT and HIT respectively) which to my mind makes them seem more attractive than the band of bees (which i have banked), or any of the 359 or 346 rings I could get (besides the random throne of four winds rings)... am I wrong? is the 346 nova band (168 STR, 112 HIT 112 CRIT) better for me than the 365 Vicious Gladiator's Band of Cruelty (201 STR, 134 CRIT) ?
    Last edited by Beefius; 03-28-2011 at 06:46 PM. Reason: additional questions

  7. #307
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    in general. if it is a socket bonus of 20crit or 20 str, and the sockets are red/yellow. fill the sockets to get the bonus.
    Only match a blue slot if its in your helm (helm socket bonuses normally give 30 str)

    as long as your expertise capped in both hands it doenst matter. were not seeing min/max damage changes in same-tier weapons like we did in other expansions.

    use your pve rings.

  8. #308
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    @Beefius

    Ok well first off you wasted a lot of time putting up a lot of usless info. Please link your char through the armory and i think i (or anyone) can give you a better responce to your questions. Unfortunatly i cant look up some things in detail ATM b/c of where i am, but ive got 30 mins to kill so wth here i go.

    - First off about the rings. Personally i would keep them both for now, but only equip the one with Crit. Your second choice should be a ring with Crit or Mastery, both would be ideal. if you cant find one with both go for one with Crit and Expertise, or a epic with Crit and Hit for future use(based on my prevous unconfermed statement).

    - Second about the orc racial. Short answer: i have no clue, i dont play a orc. Long answer: at this point it seem impractial to delibately look for another axe to replace your mase just to get the bounus since you havent taken down Cho'gall yet. You have 2 options in my mind if your dead set on getting the bounus.
    1.) the easy way: go get another gladators axe
    2.) the hard time consuming way: Beat Cho'gall and get the axe

    However unless you get Cho'gall's axe 2 times in a row i think the benifits of having two epic 2 handers outwhight the benifit you would receve from 2 PvP wepons.

    However when 4.1 drops i think i would revise my statement and say that 2 epic PvP axes would indead be more benifical then anything else (other then the Cho'gall encounter axe) axe wise any way.

    Test it, go buy one and see what happens, you have 2 hours to do so after you buy one so you really have nothing to lose.

    - Thirdly about the socket gems. This one is a bit more tricky seeing as you dont have your armory up but im my expirence i can say you prob should soc according to the bounus you will reseave. There are some cases where the bonus you can get will be compleatly worthless like Hit or Exp or Haste. In these cases you should see what gems you can equip and whigh the pros and cons.

    If you were to go back a few pages and read you can see somone already answered this question. I believe they said something along the lines of: Insted of asking yourself how much you gained look at what exactly your losing insted, you may gain +40 Crit but your losing 30 hit when you could gain +20Crit and +30 hit...... something like that. In any case just whigh your pros and cons and you can figure it out.

    Also i cant spell check this so sorry. ma ingrish not so goud . i hope i somewhat answered your question's.


    Also on a side note the topic of this thread seems to be dieing. Not so much trafic lately.
    Is everyone enjoying the Ca-tack-a-lisim? are you playing as a wor-gen? or a Goblin?

  9. #309
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    Thanks for the feedback guys.

    Here's my character if you were interested http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...efius/advanced

    Ive decided not to change my gems for now, and I'll be switching my PvP rings for PvE ones as soon as Im able... band of bees has been dusted off but I'll have to keep trying for the nova band every day till it finally drops.

    I also wont be fiddling with my expertise or PvP weapons... really hoping to replace my PvP axe with a 2nd akirus the worm-breaker soon, and possibly a fury of angerforge or heart of rage to replace my darkmoon card : hurricane... because atm most of my gear is reforged to make the expertise cap, I need to reclaim some more crit, hit & mastery instead of focusing on STR.

  10. #310
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    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/item/58195

    Wouldn't it be better to just gem +40 str? I would think any bonus that isn't +20 str should just be gemmed all +40str.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bung View Post
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/item/58195

    Wouldn't it be better to just gem +40 str? I would think any bonus that isn't +20 str should just be gemmed all +40str.
    Not all of the time.
    Because of procs, stats dont always translate over as clearly as we would like.
    For example, mastery sucks untill you get enough from gear that your RB is out damaging slam (as SMF). Its best to look at the whole picture and not just "well str effects everything equaly.. so ill just get that because its my main stat". If you cant do that yet. build a chardev character and mess with his gems and crap, and run him thru simcraft.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bung View Post
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/item/58195

    Wouldn't it be better to just gem +40 str? I would think any bonus that isn't +20 str should just be gemmed all +40str.
    Is CRIT worth less than .666 STR? having some fixed numbers to work with instead of 'X is worth more than Y is worth more than Z' would be nice.

    Having used Landsoul's spreadsheet pre 4.0, its hard to go back to just guessing and estimating relative stat values
    Last edited by Beefius; 03-30-2011 at 06:06 PM. Reason: included quote for context

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefius View Post
    Is CRIT worth less than .666 STR? having some fixed numbers to work with instead of 'X is worth more than Y is worth more than Z' would be nice.

    Having used Landsoul's spreadsheet pre 4.0, its hard to go back to just guessing and estimating relative stat values
    what is the socket bonus?

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by squats View Post
    what is the socket bonus?
    I was referring to the above boots; +10 CRIT, yellow slot... so its a choice of +20 STR or +30 CRIT... if CRIT is worth equal or more than 0.666 STR per-point, then it makes sense to match the socket... if less, you should plug in a +40 STR gem.

  15. #315
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    I think was is tricky is that the relative stat value of crit changes at a certain amount...somewhere around 18-19% unbuffed. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure regardless +40 str>+20 str/+30crit. If I'm wrong they are very close in value.

  16. #316
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    Once you reach ~20% crit, isn't str ~2:1 to crit?
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  17. #317
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    That's what I thought. What is really confusing is looking at the armory of some very high end warriors (like landsoul) who sometimes gem str/crit for the +10 str bonus. Myself I'm at 21% crit so I gem +40 str except for +20 str bonus gear.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loganisis View Post
    Once you reach ~20% crit, isn't str ~2:1 to crit?
    What is supposed to change around 20% CRIT? diminishing returns on flurry and deep wounds uptime? Thats the only damage source I can think of that wont have a linear relationship to CRIT. Or is it the stat itself which gives diminishing returns?

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefius View Post
    What is supposed to change around 20% CRIT? diminishing returns on flurry and deep wounds uptime? Thats the only damage source I can think of that wont have a linear relationship to CRIT. Or is it the stat itself which gives diminishing returns?
    flurry, deep wounds, and trinkets that have "on crit" activators, mainly. (flurry and deep wounds dont have diminishing returns..)

    Uptime on flurry is very important for rage generation, and at around 20% unbuffed, flurry uptime gets to be around 65% and thats a very good spot for rage generation. of course you can always force flurry procs with incite when necessary, but i doubt this will be a dps increase.

    And also, no abilities have a linear relationship to crit, because crit is a %, you cant calculate it that way.. it just wont work.

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by squats View Post
    flurry, deep wounds, and trinkets that have "on crit" activators, mainly. (flurry and deep wounds dont have diminishing returns..)

    Uptime on flurry is very important for rage generation, and at around 20% unbuffed, flurry uptime gets to be around 65% and thats a very good spot for rage generation. of course you can always force flurry procs with incite when necessary, but i doubt this will be a dps increase.

    And also, no abilities have a linear relationship to crit, because crit is a %, you cant calculate it that way.. it just wont work.
    What I meant about diminishing returns on flurry & deep wounds uptime is that theoretically there would be a point you were critting so often they would be up almost 100% of the time, so that would be one factor in DPS where more crit would contribute less and less per point.

    And yeah I realise crits are subject to RNG and thus unpredictable but more crit should always equal more frequent critical hits from attacks, more or less proportionally increasing DPS, right?

    Again, this is where I miss Landsoul's Spreadsheet... I recall how the relationship between certain stats would fluctuate relative to each other, how crit was almost 1:1 STR at various points, but dropped back down to 1:0.7 or lower if you kept on taking more crit... how ARP was actually more valuable than STR after a certain point, and how the value went HIGHER with every point up until the hard cap.

    I am really looking forward to using Landsoul's new spreadsheet in 4.2... being able to see how the stat ratios adjust for every gem, enchant, reforge and item change will help a whole helluva lot more than all this vague speculation.

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