The Cataclysmic fury Warrior Guide

[Bung]

Baba
"How good is the tier 12 2-piece set bonus? I'm a little wary of it, primarily because battleshout triggers GCD so I don't normally use it every time it's up, and because I'm not in a rush to break my 4-piece T11 bonus"

I don't think the 4-piece T11 is overpowered and unfortunately I think T12 bonuses are bad, especially for smf warriors.. You're going to have to mess up the t11 4 set eventually. I'm assuming the added strength is an upgrade. If you're lucky you will get a drop from BH and buy the valor chest (which looks pretty good stat wise)


Playmaker
"I need help w/ BIS trinkets for fury warrior. Currently I have equipped LTS and Apparatus of Khaz'goroth. I also have Fury of Angerforge and Heart of Rage. Which are my best options? Thanks!"

I'm pretty sure Apparatus of Khaz'goroth and the trinket from Ragnaros are BIS. If you have the heroic version of Heart of Rage I would go with that and the Apparatus. If your don't have the heroic version I'm inclined to think LTS and Apparatus are better.

[Playmaker]

So Heart of Rage wouldn't be as beneficial as LTS when combined with Apparatus?

[Bung]

Playmaker I think it depends on if you have the heroic version or not. Possibly if you happen to have no gear with expertise on it Heart of rage could be better, less reforging of stats that could be used for crit and hit. It's a tough call.

[artie]

I am in a similar situation with the trinkets. Mr. Robot currently has HoR and Vessel (off Rags) as BiS, with LTS, and Apparatus respectively down. I haven't run sims, but with the nature of procced buffs as opposed to user activated buffs, proc's are up more often.

[Loganisis]

Bear in mind these dummy runs are without any CD's being used, including the one on Apparatus.

So in other words, you haven't tested it, you're just posting results from a biased 'test'. I'm not trying to be inflamatory here, but you're comparing apples to asparagus here. You should edit your post to remove any reference to results because the test you created is biased and innacurate.

[Playmaker]

I agree with Loganisi, that response had no merit to it.

[artie]

I agree with Loganisi, that response had no merit to it.

Statements like that are not helpful in any way. The mentioned post was edited and I find Mr. Robot to be a very helpful tool for gear and stat optimization. If Mr. Robot has no merit, please suggest something for me that does to help with this problem. Landsoul's spreadsheet is in beta, and I have a hard time using it. Rawr isn't finished.

As to the discussion at hand, the issue with use trinkets is human reaction times and trying to line up CD's are not as consistent as an automated trinket proc. Different gear sets also have different stat priorities to maintain, so using the trinket that best fits your direction whether its for hit or mastery or to maintain the soft caps should be considered as well.

[darrkangel]

Brilliant guide thank you! iv had quite a break from WOW since being an endgame raider in WOTLK and this is a great help so i know what i should be aiming for since cata!!

[Koops]

I suppose it might be a scenario of "Go all haste or not at all," but I went the all haste route and do pretty well with it. Admittedly, I don't do a lot of raiding, but when I do I'm always in the top 5, and I'm almost always #1 in Heroics.

Most of the fight I'm sitting pretty on around 43-50% haste from Flurry and Hurricane procs on both weapons (which can actually proc 3+ times), with occasional spikes to around 65% from my Crushing Weight trinket, I can Lifeblood for an additional 10%, Party members can add another 10% depending on class, and Execute at the end of the fight adds 5% per stack.

I've seen my haste hit near 150%, giving me a weapon speed of around 1.4 on 2 handers. That's not bad damage, and it's great for burn phases. Inner Rage is not completely useless to me.

I don't deliberately reforge for haste, but I'll definitely take haste over mastery (though I'll almost always reforge mastery to Hit). The only time I'm significantly out DPS'd is when I'm significantly out-geared (I'm talking full T12 sets, and I've still got a fair share of blues). I think the only stat I'd really like a significantly greater amount of is Hit for early rage generation, but once my haste kicks in I don't really need it.


I might just like Haste because Hurricane enchants are dirt cheap.

[artie]

I wouldn't say its a hate towards haste, as much as I'd say that people who are waaaaaaaaaaaay better at math than I am, came up with equations and then simulations that give us the stat priorities we go by.

If you can't afford landslide, hurricane is a perfectly viable alternative.

[mrmojoz]

I suppose it might be a scenario of "Go all haste or not at all," but I went the all haste route and do pretty well with it. Admittedly, I don't do a lot of raiding, but when I do I'm always in the top 5, and I'm almost always #1 in Heroics.

Ah the "I do okay in Heroics (5 man)" reasoning. I hope people don't use your post as a build guide, if your goal is to do the most DPS possible the all haste build is a bad idea.

[Koops]

Okay, how about I always do 15-17k (spike to 20k in big pulls) in Heroics and 19-22k in raids? Going by Recount numbers.
A bit of a range, because I prefer Proc trinkets to Use trinkets, since I don't have to keep an eye on them.

Open with Battle Shout and Berserker, 2 sunders, then Colossus Smash to apply the third, normal rotation after. Maybe pop cooldowns if I trust the tank's threat, or if the tanks are taunting off each other, but I usually save them for one big mega-pop rather than use them a bit at a time.

Once Execute is up, I love popping Blood Fury, Death Wish, Recklessness, Lifeblood, and a Golemblood Potion and see my crits hit for 100k, though I've seen it hit 140k in Zuls.


Mostly do a lot of Tol Barad, but have done BoT and BD occasionally. No Firelands yet.


I'm just saying haste isn't a horrible stat if you get enough of it. Once I've got a steady flow, I think the constant trinket procs and enrage effects make up for the !1000/2000 extra attack power.

[Bung]

Koops I think letting people know of the "haste method" is very misleading. No stat is all together bad for fury because str, crit, hit, mastery, and haste will all increase your dps to a certain degree. What is proven by top notch players is to what degree or "stat weight" that is. So if you stacked haste and pulled off 20k dps in a 25 man you could probably pull off closer to 25k if you stacked strength instead. Why? Because it's been proven that as of patch 4.2 that strength is the best stat to consistently increase overall dps Crit is by far the 2nd best, and additional hit above 8% is better than any haste. Do things the way you want, but if you are going to post on a fury guide about what stats other fury warriors should be stacking please don't include your personal opinion if it's the total opposite of all the high end fury warriors around the world.

On a side note there has been some recent info from landsoul regarding what trinkets are BIS:

"As far as trinkets go this is how I would rank them:"
Vessel
Apparatus (H)
HoR (H)
Essence (TG) / Lisence (SMF)
Apparatus

[artie]

What's interesting about landsoul's statement concerning trinkets is that he notes apparatus is 'an expensive paperweight ' and had H HoR equipped last I checked. Confusing to say the least.This may have to do with whether the str bonus out weighs the fact that critical use doesn't stack well with a critical cooldown.

[Bung]

I thought that was interesting as well. His main point was that if used during recklessness it only increased you crit chance an additional 14%. Since your chances were already close to 84% (24% with gear and battleshout, 50% from reck) that another %14 chance to crit was wasted. Then apparatus is only usable when the recklessness effect wears off. He figured out that other trinkets were better until you upgraded the apparatus to heroic. I myself plan to switch out the apparatus for LtS until I can upgrade apparatus (therefore making it a paperweight in my bank).

[Thegreatme]

The other thing about on use/ICD based trinkets is that because they can be lined up with other cooldowns, the importance of what stats those procs provide is drastically increased, basically meaning that more often than not getting less of a better stat from the proc is still much better than getting more of a weaker stat. Also, with crit procs to really get an accurate idea of how much of a gain they provide you have to do some fancy math using markov chains that I barely understand, and this is due to the fact that you need to account for the fact that since you already have a chance to crit, there is a chance that the crit that occurred with the trinket active would have occurred anyway even without the trinket.

and because I like assaulting deceased hooved mammals,

The thing about haste is that it's value is heavily dependent on other stats, namely crit, strength and hit. as you increase those stats the value of haste goes up, and while it is most definitely possible for haste to be better than hit or mastery or some other stat, the fact of the matter is that the sheer quantity of other stats required for that scenario to occur is impossible with current gear. having haste on your gear doesn't mean that item is bad, but if you have the ability to choose haste or some other stat like crit for example, choosing crit is going to result in a higher DPS gain from that item slot.

again, it's not that haste is "bad" it's that almost everything else is better.

[Fraya]

So i have a question about weapons again and im sure everyone is sick of answering them but i haven't seen anyone mention the new 2h "Sulfuras" from rag. I know ive read countless times that SMF is better then TG and ive seen for myself the difference. However ive not seen if this applies to this 384ilvl (norm) 2 redsoc wep, it also seems to be slower at 3.80 seconds rather then 3.60 like the great axe and zoid sword. Some ppl say that makes a difference but i don't remember seeing anything on slower wep speed effecting dps and making it better.

Also im a big macro buff. I like to dumb down my action bars so to speak to increase my productivity and it seems to work for me pretty good. I was just wondering if anyone else does this and has had any successful results with any combinations that haven't been mentioned on wow wiki, ive tried most of the useful ones and made a few of my own.

[artie]

My understanding is that Slam, Raging Blow, Deep Wounds, and Colossus Smash deal damage based on weapon damage; and that slower weapons have higher damage. Therefore, slower weapons give better slam, RB, CS, and Deep Wounds hits, which equal more damage. There may be more to this that I am not mentioning.

[sinist3r]

Hello there,
I came here with one question, since my name is filled with strange letters like Í and i can't load my charcter to spreadsheet i hope you can help me.
There is my armory:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ister/advanced
and i have 4 trinkets to choose from, and i have no idea what would be the best couple.
AoK - http://www.wowhead.com/item=68972
FoA - http://www.wowhead.com/item=59461
LtS - http://www.wowhead.com/item=58180
EotEF - http://www.wowhead.com/item=69002

Now i am using LtS + AoK, but im not sure its the best choice. Maybe you made some calculations etc with those trinkets and somebody know ?

[artie]

http://elitistjerks.com/f81/t123530-...discussion/p3/

From my experience I've always found that if the trinket has a periodic proc, it better be Strength/AP, period. The only exception would be if nothing comparable was available.

Don't know any numbers to back it up, but I would think that with its short cool down to the use, Essence would probably pair up better with License than Apparatus and perhaps even Fury as well.