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Thread: DK, DW or 2H?

  1. #1
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    DK, DW or 2H?

    Hey guys, I'm new to tank spot, and I was just wondering if dual wielding after the recent patch is a no or yes. I haven't looked it up or anything, and I am a DW as of now because I was a frost spec before. Should I try to get a 2H? or just not worry about it?

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    I had a thread on this, kind of: http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...lding-DK-Tanks

    But there's a thread by Staorri, that explains why it's a not a good idea in greater detail.

  3. #3
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    The short answer is that if you are a tank, you are blood spec and using a 2 hander. If you want to dual wield dps, frost is your spec. If you want to 2 hand dps, unholy is your spec. There is no more dual wielding tank spec.

    The long answer is read Satorri's thread. It's got all the best and latest info.
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  4. #4
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    And, Frost does support 2-hand DPS if you want to. It will change your talent picks slightly. Last I checked, though, many people are preferring dual wield Frost currently at 80.

    Blizz has narrowed down the designs to deliberately favor specific weapon styles with each tree. You *can* do other things, but because they lack support they're hard pressed to perform nearly as well.
    Last edited by Satorri; 11-16-2010 at 12:22 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    And, Frost does support 2-hand tanking if you want to. .
    I'd love to see how.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    And, Frost does support 2-hand tanking if you want to.
    Given the context and Satorri's DK tanking article I'm guessing that's supposed to read "2-hand dps", not tanking.

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    Ha, that it is. Don't know why tanking slipped in there. Too much tanking thinking.
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    I 2h dps in Frost and it does some nasty dps and it generates a lot of runic power for Frost Strike spaming.

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    haha, nice. yes I thought it was that way, I even figured it out myself.. I just needed to see. it just suuucks cause I worked so hard to get the weapons I'm using currently and now I have to get a 2her lol. BLIZZARD WHY!? lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    And, Frost does support 2-hand DPS if you want to. It will change your talent picks slightly. Last I checked, though, many people are preferring dual wield Frost currently at 80.

    Blizz has narrowed down the designs to deliberately favor specific weapon styles with each tree. You *can* do other things, but because they lack support they're hard pressed to perform nearly as well.
    My DK is 2 hand DPS and the damage output is pretty impressive considering the gear level, 18k Obliterate crits and my gear level is 244 :P

    I have not even glanced at Satorri's DK guides yet but since this agility nerf for plate DPS in 4.0.1, dual wielding is a really bad idea. Thankfully you will be given the choice of either in Cataclysm and I think dual wield will be more viable if you are loaded up on expertise and haste gear versus possibly being more mastery focused with a 2 hand weapon, since you need less expertise rating to get to cap with a 2 hand weapon. Since I have not played on the beta, I can't tell you which will be better, but I am sure the results will be similar in Cataclysm.


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  11. #11
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    Ha, my guide doesn't really touch on Frost any more since it was focused on tanking.

    That said, I have been playing a lot of fun with my dual wield Frost kit, and I am doing anything but poorly. I would not call it a bad idea by any stretch of the imagination.

    If I remember my second-hand chatter, actually, dual wielding at 80 is giving superior numbers and 2-hands were performing much more strongly at 85 (than now, mind you, not than dual wielding). That's just me with my ear to the community though, not hard numbers from testing.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  12. #12
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    It really just depends on your available weapons. Howling Blast is so powerful for most encounters now that 2H frost or DW frost equally perform at an almost overpowered capacity.

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    Frost has a talent to specifically support 2-hand. It at least recognizes Blizzard's intention to keep both options alive in the Frost tree. Whether or that is abandoned later remains to be seen, but, for the moment, you can bet that they'll be trying to keep both equally viable. But it's not likely that Blizzard will make changes or adjustments until we're all 85, since that's what "everyone is balanced for" they already went through a small series of changes to keep classes basically in check, and I don't imagine we'll see any more than that.

    Essentially, at the moment, you can 2-hand as any spec for DKs, but if you want to DW you have to go Frost. That's more-or-less how it breaks down.

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    [QUOTE=Reev;472894]The short answer is that if you are a tank, you are blood spec and using a 2 hander. If you want to dual wield dps, frost is your spec. If you want to 2 hand dps, unholy is your spec. There is no more dual wielding tank spec.

    Wrong since there are no 2-hander tanking weapons and I didn't want to change weapons after working so hard to farm them i kept DW.

    You just take the dual weld talent in the first tier of frost and keep your weapons, and since tanking weapons are currently one handers only you will have better stats and avoidance than one using a 2-hander.

    Which will also give you more room to get hit and expertise!
    "It's always the Healer's fault; unless it's the Tanks fault, just ask the DPS'er in purples doing 5k!"

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uranos7 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Reev View Post
    The short answer is that if you are a tank, you are blood spec and using a 2 hander. If you want to dual wield dps, frost is your spec. If you want to 2 hand dps, unholy is your spec. There is no more dual wielding tank spec.
    Wrong since there are no 2-hander tanking weapons and I didn't want to change weapons after working so hard to farm them i kept DW.

    You just take the dual weld talent in the first tier of frost and keep your weapons, and since tanking weapons are currently one handers only you will have better stats and avoidance than one using a 2-hander.

    Which will also give you more room to get hit and expertise!
    This is very poor thinking. I would recommend you take a look at Satorri's reasoning for why DW Tanking isn't effective in his thread. But I'll make some concise points:
    1) There are no 2-hander tank weapons
    - Yes, this is true, but DKs have never used Tank weapons in the first place. Even DW DKs used DPS weapons. Tank weapons have a tendency to have fast weapon speeds, which means lower damage per hit, which makes them effectively worse than slower weapons. aka A DK shouldn't have ever used Tank weapons in the first place, and they're meant to use DPS weapons anyways. 2-hand DK Tanking has always been viable, and, technically, usually among the best methods of Tanking. Now it's the only method. Perhaps that could change in the future, but I wouldn't put my money on it.

    2) The DW Talent from the first tier of Frost is all I need
    - Wrong. In fact, while a nice talent, it is not THE talent that makes DWing viable. Nerves of Cold Steel has been in the tree for quite some time, but DW Frost wasn't truly viable until Threat of Thassarian was put in, because it allows two weapons to effectively scale viably with the damage that a 2-hander puts out. Without Threat of Thassarian you're essentially only doing damage for your weapon strikes with your main-hand one-hander which will always be less damage than an equivalent two-hander, your other one-hander is only doing white damage. It's Threat of Thassarian which allows both weapons to do damage and thus keep DWing on par.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulia View Post
    This is very poor thinking. I would recommend you take a look at Satorri's reasoning for why DW Tanking isn't effective in his thread. But I'll make some concise points:
    1) There are no 2-hander tank weapons
    - Yes, this is true, but DKs have never used Tank weapons in the first place. Even DW DKs used DPS weapons. Tank weapons have a tendency to have fast weapon speeds, which means lower damage per hit, which makes them effectively worse than slower weapons. aka A DK shouldn't have ever used Tank weapons in the first place, and they're meant to use DPS weapons anyways. 2-hand DK Tanking has always been viable, and, technically, usually among the best methods of Tanking. Now it's the only method. Perhaps that could change in the future, but I wouldn't put my money on it.

    2) The DW Talent from the first tier of Frost is all I need
    - Wrong. In fact, while a nice talent, it is not THE talent that makes DWing viable. Nerves of Cold Steel has been in the tree for quite some time, but DW Frost wasn't truly viable until Threat of Thassarian was put in, because it allows two weapons to effectively scale viably with the damage that a 2-hander puts out. Without Threat of Thassarian you're essentially only doing damage for your weapon strikes with your main-hand one-hander which will always be less damage than an equivalent two-hander, your other one-hander is only doing white damage. It's Threat of Thassarian which allows both weapons to do damage and thus keep DWing on par.
    Heh. I thought about responding, but I knew someone else would, and do it better than I. Well played, sir.
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  17. #17

    Re: DK, DW or 2H?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reev View Post
    Heh. I thought about responding, but I knew someone else would, and do it better than I. Well played, sir.
    I was tempted to respond as well, but was afraid this person was a troll. I mean, no one who plays a dk seriously as dps or a tank can truly completely lack the understanding of their talent trees, can they? I mean, since dk's were never intended to tank with tanking weapons (hence stoneskin gargoyle) and DW tanking wasn't viable till 3.3, this can't be serious.

    I'm convinced it's a troll baiting everyone and playing dumb, because no human could possibly be so dumb.

    It would almost be like watching people tank in frost presence still, that never happens (heh)

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  18. #18
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    Simply put there are 2 options for tanking when it comes to weapons. Either you are a pally or a warrior and you equip a 1H weapon AND a shield, or you are a feral druid or a blood dk and you equip 2H weapons. DW dk tanking is completely dead and buried and should be forgotten.
    As for me, I will from this day out assume that a thread asking about DW dk tanking is a troll thread and as such I will not feed the trolls.

  19. #19
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    Kinda off topic, but somewhat related to the discussion above. I think it would be a good move from Blizzard to remove tanking stats from weapons. Druids and DKs are balanced around it and in BC Paladins had to use spellpower weapons if they wanted to have any threat at all, so this isn't something from another world. Also, with reforging, it's entirely possible to take a weapon with say, crit and hit, and turn it into something tanky.

    Most importantly however, is that this would make STR one-handers interesting for the shield tanks, whereas, in the current state of the game, they are only desired by half of a spec tree (Fury Warriors with Single Minded Fury and DW Frost DKs). The fact that one-handed STR weapons are limited to such a small niche makes me fear that they will be very hard to come by or in other cases be an unwanted drop that consistently gets disenchanted.

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    I just wanted to thank you all for posting, and I will definitely be posting more and reading more on here : )

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