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Thread: The Cataclystic Protection Warrior Spreadsheet

  1. #161
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    I like SS>fish>fish>truck. i just wish fish included Rev.

    Rev's totally dea in the water though

  2. #162
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    Well, anything is better than SS > Dev.

    Faceroll this macro:

    Code:
    #show Shield Slam
     /cast Shield Slam
     /stopcasting
     /cast Devastate



    + a little bit HS that's my current "A-Game-Rotation" since we don't have the 30% bleed debuff in our raid. suuucks

  3. #163
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    That macro won't work if SS is on CD.

    and you're A game rotation is not agame at all.

    if you doing content where rage is effectively infinite your priorites should be

    1. Maintian rend with BnT safeclips
    2. SS
    3 Dev if SS'cd is >1.5 seconds
    4. Trucks

    while spamming HS and maintaining Demoshout

    if you are not in a infinite rage scenarion it should be

    1. SS
    2. Rev>dev if SS's cd is >15.seconds
    3. Trucks
    while spamming HS and maintaining Demoshout and thunderclap debuffs/


    regardless of whether you have the Bleed debuff or not. for the first rotation you ditch Imp Revenge, in the second rotation you ditch Blood and Thunder.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    That macro won't work if SS is on CD.
    idd

    Code:
    #show Shield Slam
    /castsequence reset=6 Shield Slam, Devastate, Devastate, Devastate
    This should do it, but you will miss some SNBs... so not optimal but it ->could<- do the job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    and you're A game rotation is not agame at all.
    Sorry I didn't mention before that I was talking from a DPS perspective. You are totally right from a threat perspective. But since threat is not much of a problem in a (firelands)encounter, except right after pulling the boss, I usually go for max DPS instead of max. TPS.

    And without the bleed debuff wartotems spreadsheet with my numbers put in tells me SS>Dev is the way to go DPS wise.

  5. #165
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    Max DPS is identical to Max TPS except CB & HT are lower in the priority of trucks.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    Max DPS is identical to Max TPS except CB & HT are lower in the priority of trucks.
    ok I see. Its the same rotation if you let rend tick at least 5 times or in other words you cannot reapply rend when the timer is > 3s

  7. #167
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    not sure i really understand what you're saying properly but if you're asking what i think you: Pretty much, though maintining rend is your no.1 priority in the first rotation so you should be making sure you're ina postion to refesh rend in those last few moments. you shouldn't ever need to refresh rend early though Shield or some of top end trucks would probably beat it, depends on how early you refresh it.

    As a 10 man tank i'm not hit anywhere near hard enough to get the rage for the first rotation to be maintained, so i use the second.

  8. #168
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    It really depends with BnT.

    If you're a 10m tank with no DK for the debuff, I'ld use TC over the second Dev just to keep the debuff up (in case it misses you still got time to refresh before it falls off)
    Otherwise, only TC on the 'truck' GCD, if Rend falls off, apply Rend instead of TC.
    You could tank 25m perfectly fine without BnT, just need to re-apply Rend as soon as it falls off.

    PS: My numbers include Bleed debuff, but only 3 ticks of Rend, which is similar to letting it tick 4 times without.
    Also, if you aren't using BnT, let Rend run out! Applying Rend gives you an instant tick, refreshing doesn't. (There is some pro AoE way of using TC 0.3s before Rend runs out, getting the tick + one for the 'new application', but it's very time-sensitive so don't do it unless you got some practise on it)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  9. #169
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    This is a bit confusing :S. Maybe I don't read the spreadsheet right? These are my numbers w/o the bleed debuff and 5 Rend ticks per TC.

    DPS TPS
    Shield Slam 4591 14129
    Shield Slam (HR) 9072 27572
    Revenge 3349 10058
    Devastate 4359 13078
    Heroic Strike 2998 9038
    Concussion Blow 2686 16115
    Shockwave 3179 9536
    Thunderclap 4736 14208
    Heroic Throw 3186 14335
    Rend (ability) 3625 10875
    Slam 1641 4922
    Victory Rush 2314 6942
    White swing 809 2427


    So according to this my rotation should be the rotation 1 from tengenstein: TC(5 ticks) > SS > Dev

    However, letting rend fall off and reapply rend asap would be more DPS? Somehow it does make sense because its 1 tick more + the instant tick when you apply it. But on the other hand you lose debuff uptime due to gcd and Rend misses/dodges/parries
    Last edited by gom; 07-28-2011 at 08:56 AM.

  10. #170
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    Safeclipping a Rend requires refreshing with <3seconds durations left, not 0.3 seconds,

    When i simmed the high rage rotation above i tried it without the Bleed debuff. It's still better, which saddens me as i don't like that rotation, i find it hard to pull off, and i plain just don't like, so i was hoping that not having the bleed debuff would make it fall behind. it doesn't. It needs alot of incoming rage to pull off. and frankly i don't play that well, nearly 3 years of HS spamming and SnB cycling is habit forming i just do better with the low rage rotation.

    In my sims if I don't take BnT, the second rotation wins, they are that close in TPS.

    I break the cycle to Keep TC/Demo debuffs up, if i can fit them in that's brilliant, but either i need more vengeance in which case i'm probably in safe place to let the debuffs run off(5 mans) or i need them up all the time becuase i'm being hit like a red headed stepchild and thus am so far ahead on threat it's untrue.

  11. #171
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    Gom in a high rage scenario you would after your initial pull sequence then follow a priority of;

    1. put rend up, if you've let it fall off
    2. Thunderclap when rend has <3 seconds eft
    3. Shield slam
    4. Devastate if SS has >1.5s left on it CD, fishing for SnB procs
    5. CB
    6. HT
    7. Dev

    However this will changes as vengeace increases, Shockwave becomes a truck, etc.

    Becuase you're safeclipping your rend, you won't actually lose any ticks. when you refresh a dot with only one tick left, it restarts the dot, but adds the remaining time of the previous application on to the new dot. Rend last's 15 seconds, a safeclipped rend can result in rends aslong as 17.99seconds.

    SnB cycling (ss>dev>dev>truck) is a rotation, one thats withing the above priority, its resets each time you get an SnB proc, there's alot of maths earlier in the thread if you really want to take a look at it, but it boils down to trying to get as many SSs as possibly, so despite Dev being less than your trucks, you use dev if there's a chance it can shorten the CD of SS, if there's no chance it will because SS is off CD next GCD anyway theres little advantage to proccing SnB, so you don't try and just hit the ability that produces the most threat, one of your trucks.
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 07-28-2011 at 09:15 AM. Reason: my spelling is appauling

  12. #172
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    * The 0.3s is a bug/"clever use of game mechanics", where you TC right before Rend runs out, then you get the last tick and (due to server lag etc) only then does Rend gets re-applied to the mobs, resulting in an extra tick. But as said before, requires excellent timing, usually not worth it on single target, unless your haste happens to be just perfect.
    * TC on my spreadsheet also includes the Shockwave buff (in case you didn't notice the last 5 times I said so), so it is semi-inflated, as it does require you to Shockwave before you hit a 4th TC. Basicly, if you got 3 stacks of Thunderstruck, SW > TC, even if you lose Rend from it.
    * Uptime from Rend means nothing, as you get the extra tick. If you were to go to a dummy & re-apply 0.1s after it ran out each time, you'ld actually have done more DPS than if you spammed it for 100% uptime.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  13. #173
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    Anyone got any good log parses of this "high rage no rev" rotation under real conditions to look at?

  14. #174
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    It's not 0.3 seconds though. Its 3 seconds, three whole seconds, or 2 gcds, according to Blizz this is working as intended. If your safeclipping you do not lose ticks. 3 seconds to react and drop a TC does not seem particularily arduous.

    I remove the bit which adds TS on to TC. I just don't find it useful as TCing on CD is less than optimal, as is SWing on CD, i prefer to prioritse SW according to how many stacks it has at any given time, and for that i need to know its threat value at each stack. I also like to see how much threat a Bnt Refresh will do at each tick point of a rend, and an inflated TC doesn't help

    its not about the uptime. if you let it fall off and reapply you get 6 ticks rend for that GCD, if you safe clip it you get 6ticks of rend & Thunderclap for that GCD.

    EDIT: i can send you the results page of the Sim, Kopcap, but no i can't as i don't get hit that hard enough to pull it off.

  15. #175
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    Ye, that would be handy thanks.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    It's not 0.3 seconds though. Its 3 seconds, three whole seconds, or 2 gcds, according to Blizz this is working as intended. If your safeclipping you do not lose ticks. 3 seconds to react and drop a TC does not seem particularily arduous.

    ...

    its not about the uptime. if you let it fall off and reapply you get 6 ticks rend for that GCD, if you safe clip it you get 6ticks of rend & Thunderclap for that GCD.
    And like I said, there is a delay bug where you can get 7 ticks. Within 3 seconds you get the 6 ticks you talk of, you can get a 7th if you manage to TC RIGHT before it runs out, then you get the extra tick from applying Rend similar to how you get it when you first spread BnT. So 1 tick between TC & refresh, then refresh, then 5 from the 15s debuff, that's 7.

    I remove the bit which adds TS on to TC. I just don't find it useful as TCing on CD is less than optimal, as is SWing on CD, i prefer to prioritse SW according to how many stacks it has at any given time, and for that i need to know its threat value at each stack. I also like to see how much threat a Bnt Refresh will do at each tick point of a rend, and an inflated TC doesn't help
    If you're looking at specific SW/TC values, then TS is inflating, but as overall value it's pretty accurate, as you don't need to TC/SW on CD, you only need to use up the buffs, which is TC/SW 15s after a TC and SW before 4 TC in a row.
    Last edited by Airowird; 07-28-2011 at 11:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  17. #177
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    ty tengenstein I had kind of a eureka in post 171!

    Quote Originally Posted by Airowird View Post
    And like I said, there is a delay bug where you can get 7 ticks. Within 3 seconds you get the 6 ticks you talk of, you can get a 7th if you manage to TC RIGHT before it runs out, then you get the extra tick from applying Rend similar to how you get it when you first spread BnT. So 1 tick between TC & refresh, then refresh, then 5 from the 15s debuff, that's 7.
    So you can get 7 ticks because of a bug but you still don't lose ticks if you are safeclipping. So not having BnT would be a TPS/DPS loss.

  18. #178
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    I am curious if the spreadsheet takes into account Vengeance stacking? It is clear that Devastate outperforms Revenge based on the calculators numbers, but is that at a 0 vengeance adjustment? Thanks.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airowird View Post
    If you're looking at specific SW/TC values, then TS is inflating, but as overall value it's pretty accurate, as you don't need to TC/SW on CD, you only need to use up the buffs, which is TC/SW 15s after a TC and SW before 4 TC in a row.
    Indeed but as i'm a rage starved 10 man tank I use the second priority and Skip BnT, so i'm only using TC to keep up the debuff so i'm generally not gonna be in a postion for a 3 stack, unless i get very lucky with my procs. At certain vengeance levels how many stacks i have radically alters the shockwaves priority in the trucks. so i prefer treating SW with 0,1,2, & 3 stacks of TS and indivual entitities


    EDIT:
    @kehoe Airowird's spreadsheet has an input box on the first tab 'stats' in cell E19 for your average vengeace amount.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post

    @kehoe Airowird's spreadsheet has an input box on the first tab 'stats' in cell E19 for your average vengeace amount.
    Oh, yea I see that. Perfect! Even at 100% vengeance, Dev is higher than Rev... poor poor rev.

    Thanks for the help!

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