The Cataclystic Protection Warrior Spreadsheet

[Airowird]

Yeah, I'll fix it on the next patch update.
Dev gets a lot of threat from the Sunders actually, so at 0 Vengeance (not tanking) that is indeed often the best you can get, as it has a high base, but low scaling, while most other moves will eventually out-scale Dev at higher Vengeance.

[klausi]

Ah just found it in the 3.2.2 patchnotes (something to counter turtle cleave back in a pvp season..)

Concussion Blow: Damage decreased by 50%. Threat level remains unchanged.

Fix:
Abilities, H10: (H9+H4*H5)*Stats!$B19*2

[Tengenstein]

About time it got reverted. Bring back turtle cleave!

[Airowird]

Just a heads-up for people that will ask about it next week:
The spreadsheet will probably be done no sooner than the 5th of July, kinda busy untill Friday, so won't be able to jump on the patch ASAP.
But yes, I still fiddle with this thing

[Dannyl]

I'm enjoying this spreadsheet quite a bit. I have a question about the process though, as I'm interested in developing my damage taken on a boss to boss bases, when it comes to physical damage. However, I'm not sure where I can get accurate figures on the bosses, their swing timers, damage, armor, and that sort of things.

How do I figure out that part for the spreadsheet? I'd appreciate some input.

[Airowird]

@Dannyl: You could try Wowhead or otherwise find some parses on WoL or WWS or so and compare it to the tank's armor.

@everyone else:
Sorry for the lack of update atm, kinda redecorating & didn't have time yet to double-check my changes from PTR.

[Airowird]

Major update!!

I took some time to double-check all spells against their ingame tooltip to make sure I was correct and as of today, all abilities should have the exact same value as their tooltip says. If you know of any tooltip being completely wrong, let me know and I'll run some raw data tests on it.


Fixed/added following issues in 4.2 version:

* Heroic Throw scaling changed to 75% (from 50%)
* Thunder Clap scaling changed to 22,82% (from 12%)
* Victory Rush scaling changed to 58,27% (from 56%, can not find out why it is different from data mining sites)
* Revenge scaling adjusted to 31% (from 31,05%, as it was when the 20,7% got a 50% buff)
* Revenge talent & glyph are additive, rather than multiplicative (apparently a bug in the game, causing Revenge to suck even more)

New conclusions:
* Shield Slam sucks at lower gear/Vengeance. This means it's NOT the best spell for heroics!
* Revenge is only useful as cleave or low-cost devastate when talented, useless without the talent
* Thunder Clap (with BnT) now beats Devastate at ~3 ticks of Rend per cast, or simply put: TC every 10s is not a loss!
* Rend is competing with and even surpassing Shield Slam on some levels. Yeah, you that's not a typo, it's actually that good now!
* The new priority should roughly be something like this:
2 target (Imp.) Revenge > Conc. Blow > Heroic Throw > Thunder Clap (3+ BnT) > pure Rend > Shockwave > Shield Slam (boss) > Devastate > low Vengeance Shield Slam > low Vengeance Shockwave > single Revenge
SS and Dev are close enough that those without Heavy Repercussions can basicly spam Dev and weave in bigger CDs and get away with it.

[Loganisis]

I still have trouble with your new name... o_O

Thanks for the update!

[swelt]

Thanks for the update. Would be nice if you could add an option for the T12 2piece (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=99239)

In my gear, without deep wounds, shield slam is still head and shoulders above devastate. It's only with deep wounds that devastate catches up, and there's still about 10% between them. Is it right that devastate is getting such a big jump from deep wounds?

[Airowird]

Sword & Board gives Dev 15% crit and the glyph another 5% iirc, so Deep Wounds does help a lot on Devastate.
I assume that you have Cruelty, which would indeed give a slight margin on SS, but none the less, our main ability being so close to our filler is kind of dissappointing. Also, with no DW, I'm sure Rend beats SS for you as well (still can't get over that).
The difference also depends on max Vengeance & weapon DPS a lot, so as always, don't generalize too much.

I actually made 2 builds as a guide to starting players:
Heroic build: Focus on AoE threat, quick ramp-up & assumes lower Vengeance. Prio would roughly be BnT > Rev > Dev > SnB SS.
Raid build: Better single-target/boss-tanking with a larger SS focus and no Imp Rev/Gag Order. Could get SW glyph in if needed.
Rough builds ofcourse, but that's pretty much what the numbers would favor in an average gear setup & environment.

PS: I might add a T12 bonus later on, but I'ld need to fiddle with SB uptime first, so I'll see what I can do!
Edit: Meh, was thinking of the 4p bonus, I'll add the 2p when I add 4p, shouldn't be that difficult ... I hope.

[Tengenstein]

It shoud also be kept in mind that Rend relies upon the bleed debuff being up, that not something we can rely upon in 5 mans, and even in 10 mans it can be hard to come by, without it i'm seeing it fall behind. That buff seems to have way too much bearing on our rotation.

[RedVersion]

New conclusions:
* Shield Slam sucks at lower gear/Vengeance. This means it's NOT the best spell for heroics!
* Revenge is only useful as cleave or low-cost devastate when talented, useless without the talent
* Thunder Clap (with BnT) now beats Devastate at ~3 ticks of Rend per cast, or simply put: TC every 10s is not a loss!
* Rend is competing with and even surpassing Shield Slam on some levels. Yeah, you that's not a typo, it's actually that good now!
* The new priority should roughly be something like this:
2 target (Imp.) Revenge > Conc. Blow > Heroic Throw > Thunder Clap (3+ BnT) > pure Rend > Shockwave > Shield Slam (boss) > Devastate > low Vengeance Shield Slam > low Vengeance Shockwave > single Revenge
SS and Dev are close enough that those without Heavy Repercussions can basicly spam Dev and weave in bigger CDs and get away with it.

So with rend at its current level, it is more important to keep rend up than to stick to the SS>dev>dev>filler model?

[Tengenstein]

Running both rotations through simcraft shows a 6DPS loss for my toon if i prioritise maintaining rand over SnB cycling. I have a 359 weapon and had 0/2 cruelty and 2/2 Thunderstruck. With a better weapon mainintaing rend would probably eke ahead, and of course this is assuminng you have asomeone putting up the bleed debuff for you.

[klausi]

Microsoft version: I can't choose elixirs from the dropdown menues in B3 and B5 at the Talents&Buffs tab. Open Office works fine.

[Airowird]

I'll have a look at it, will update once I finished the T12 set boni (or bonuses)

[Airowird]

Apparently, I don't have any PCs with Microsoft Office around, they all have OOo, so I can't check the dropdowns. But you should be able to fill in the correct name (they are in white text below, so simply link to their cells directly, should work)

More tweaks:
* Shield Block is now an uptime field (rather than assumed max).
* Block chance & value now take SB into account (Unhittability still doesn't)
* 4pT12 added to Parry chance (same uptime as SB)
* Apparently, I only added Shield Slam glyph & 2pT11 to the HR field, not the normal one (Oops!). This has been fixed.
* Magic damage debuff added.
* T12 set bonus fields added.

As a result, at ~16k AP, CB > SS(double Tier bonus) > HT > SS > Rend >= SW/TC > Dev > TC(*) > Rev

(*) This is Thunderclap without Thunderstruck. The other one is counting in 3 ticks of Rend + the 5% buff to SW.

Short list:
SS > Dev > Dev > CDs
Threat CDs: CB > HT > Rend > TC/SW
Damage CDs : TC(TS) > SW/HT/Rend > CB > TC(*)
With Thunderstruck, you won't lose much threat/damage replacing the 2nd Dev with TC if really needed.
As you get more AP, CDs come closer to SS & SnB becomes less important.
At 25k AP & 550 DPS weapon, all CDs are extremely close to SS (with Thunderstruck) and Dev is so far behind, SnB is nothing more than free rage.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the numbers for Rend are those for the complete duration (letting it drop off & re-applying), which is 6 ticks!

[Grimfist]

As always, perfect spreadsheet, thanks Wartotem ähhm Airowird

Really interesting that Rend is that good (with bleed debuff). In my opinion SS needs a slight buff in base dmg for beeing our iconic ability. Also I don't use CB and SW on CD, rather on need for interrupt (talking 'bout 5mans here), so they are no real threat CDs for me. So I stick with SS > Dev > Dev > Rend/TC/Demo, thanks to Reck there is no threat problem

[JongyFong]

Apparently, I don't have any PCs with Microsoft Office around, they all have OOo, so I can't check the dropdowns. But you should be able to fill in the correct name (they are in white text below, so simply link to their cells directly, should work)

More tweaks:
* Shield Block is now an uptime field (rather than assumed max).
* Block chance & value now take SB into account (Unhittability still doesn't)
* 4pT12 added to Parry chance (same uptime as SB)
* Apparently, I only added Shield Slam glyph & 2pT11 to the HR field, not the normal one (Oops!). This has been fixed.
* Magic damage debuff added.
* T12 set bonus fields added.

As a result, at ~16k AP, CB > SS(double Tier bonus) > HT > SS > Rend >= SW/TC > Dev > TC(*) > Rev

(*) This is Thunderclap without Thunderstruck. The other one is counting in 3 ticks of Rend + the 5% buff to SW.

Short list:
SS > Dev > Dev > CDs
Threat CDs: CB > HT > Rend > TC/SW
Damage CDs : TC(TS) > SW/HT/Rend > CB > TC(*)
With Thunderstruck, you won't lose much threat/damage replacing the 2nd Dev with TC if really needed.
As you get more AP, CDs come closer to SS & SnB becomes less important.
At 25k AP & 550 DPS weapon, all CDs are extremely close to SS (with Thunderstruck) and Dev is so far behind, SnB is nothing more than free rage.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the numbers for Rend are those for the complete duration (letting it drop off & re-applying), which is 6 ticks!

For pure single target DPS/TPS is it actually beneficial to refresh Rend via TC (B&T) or simply a matter of convenience?

[Tengenstein]

I recently did some Sim crafting and found that without Blood and Thunder safe clipping, Maintaining Rend over SnB cylcing is a TPS loss. In my gear, i have to use BnT to refresh rend or not bother.

[gom]

As always, perfect spreadsheet, thanks Wartotem ähhm Airowird

Really interesting that Rend is that good (with bleed debuff). In my opinion SS needs a slight buff in base dmg for beeing our iconic ability.

If you get the T12 PC2 bonus the Shield Slam world seems quite OK. In my opinion Revenge needs a buff.At the moment it is totally useless in a single target fight.
I would like something like this as a prio. list: SS > SW/CB > Revenge > Rend > Dev. 6 abilities without Demoshout ,TC and HS would be a cool rotation