The Cataclystic Protection Warrior Spreadsheet

[Booi]

Not that I've tested it either.

But I recall a blue post like the one you are remembering, and I thought the change was specifically to address shields. So that we still get rage even when absorbing hits.

It's possible I misinterpreted it. Like you say, would need to do some testing.

[Kojiyama]

Remember them giving armor as an example as well, and stating that it was to prevent decreases in rage gain with better gear. Kinda took them at face value, considering I would presume rage gain would be pretty awful if it wasn't the case! (Given the block rates of a well-geared Warrior nowadays.)

[Booi]

Remember them giving armor as an example as well, and stating that it was to prevent decreases in rage gain with better gear. Kinda took them at face value, considering I would presume rage gain would be pretty awful if it wasn't the case! (Given the block rates of a well-geared Warrior nowadays.)

It sounds vaguely familiar now that you mention it. I'll just bounce inner rage back to shield block.

[kopcap]

You need to pool rage before IR which does not usually happen until the second half of SB unless you get some lucky procs on the 2nd/3rd GCD. I don't like the idea of macroing it into anything. Like think about the opening sequence, you need 75 rage for the first 2 GCDs, your immediately missing on some of the IR uptime on a standard boss swing.

Also, with revenge having a nearly rage neutral cost (around ~0.5 rage for a no hit / no exp warrior), it really feels like needing it on some GCDs at the beginning of the fight. Maybe I am just seeing things.

[Booi]

For an ability that is up 50% of the time it's hard to pool rage for.

I use shift as a modifier for my rage dumps anyways, so tying in inner rage becomes pretty straightforward. Any less balls I have to juggle while tanking, the better. The trouble with macroing it into shield block on sinestra, is that you're only using shield block every 45 seconds instead of 30. Lowering your inner rage uptime from 50% to 33%. But I mean, on an infinite rage fight like sinestra: put it on your bars or macro it somewhere else.

#showtooltip
/cast revenge
/cast [nomod:shift]inner rage
/cast [nomod:shift]heroic strike

[Kojiyama]

Yeah, certainly macroing it won't work in all situations. If you're really good at microing your rage, doing it manually will probably be better--but in general situations you may be letting it drop more than you think without using it on cooldown. The main reason I feel like it fits well with Shield Block often is simply because that is likely to be your highest rage intake period--but I could see the logic in delaying it until a few seconds after Shield Block as well.

But, indeed, definitely depends on the fight. Sinestra is an obvious example where it's better to figure something else out.

Revenge is still a good tool if you get rage-starved for whatever reason. The question for me is if it's worth talenting up just for those situations--e.g. at the start of the fight and if a rage drought hits. I guess one would need to actually track how often they are unable to use a GCD due to lack of rage and/or lowered Heroic Strike rates. It probably need real-world testing more than modeling, realistically.

[Tengenstein]

I don't think we need revenge, I just find that its Nicer to have it than to not. and arguably since those two points would be going into either cruelty, BnT or thunderstruck, having more leeway with resources is always nice, it may e a slight threat loss, but lacking the rage to get SB, or DemoShout up does give it some slight if rather indeirect survivabilty Value.

Man i could almost beleive this delusional yarn.

[Tengenstein]

I may just have missed this, but is anyone else noticing that everytime we dodge, parry or an attack misses us, we gain 1 rage?

[Odok]

I just macro Inner Rage to Berserker Rage. Same cooldown and you get the extra rage gen from BR. *shrug*

[kopcap]

I was checking numbres for the opening rotation last night and I can't really make up my mind whether SB - Dev/Rev - Dev/Rev - CB is better than SB - CB - SW - Dev for the first cycle in a fight provided recklessness/str potion/ht glyph are in place. Sure CB is huge at the start and under recklessness, but so it SnB proc. SW is hard to judge since its an obv tps loss at the start but adds a fair bit on consistency. Early Dev also adds an early dmg boost to all melee. Whats everyone thinking?

ps CB retains a threat multiplier, you can check it in game.

I just macro Inner Rage to Berserker Rage. Same cooldown and you get the extra rage gen from BR. *shrug*

No no, never do this. Berzeker Rage is your get out of jail card whenever you need to use Regen. Its the only thing you can macro it to.

[Kojiyama]

I would think that Bastion of Defense generally provides a rather consistent Enrage effect on most Warriors with raid-buffed levels of avoidance?

[kopcap]

Its fairly high, but not that high if want to be able to use it when you want to.

[Tengenstein]

I use zerker rage pretty freely throught most encounters, and granted alot of times i'm sitting their going "for the love of god give me an enrage!", I don't actually recall dying afterwards. En Reg just doesn't really functions as a panic button, it's use needs to planned to really have any real effect. On V&T i had a 51.7% uptime on Enrage with 11.8% dodge, 11.8% parry and 55.9% Block according to the log.

I have IR off on its own, but then i have one hell of a SB, zerker rage, all charge macro so effectively Zerker rage and SB are macroed together

[mistersix]

I would think that Bastion of Defense generally provides a rather consistent Enrage effect on most Warriors with raid-buffed levels of avoidance?

Frequent but not dependable. Random is random after all. There are definite moments where you want the control.

[Tengenstein]

But, and this is a big but, is it worth sitting on Zerker Rage to keep ER available?

I don't think so, Sure if i know i'm gonna need it in 30 secs i'll sit on zerker rage, but i'm not going to sit on zerker rage the whole encounter just becuase at some random interval my health may drop low. Last stand works better as a panic button, and generally once i've pressed it the healers shit themselves becuase the MT just shat himself and Flash heal him back to the safe zone, If i pop ER at the same time any heal I got from ER end's up wasted as over heal and if i just pop ER the HPS boost it provides is rarely enough to change the out come on its own it either doesn't tick enough to save me or the healers are able to pick me up anyway. Enraged regen is just better used tactically.

[Loganisis]

Is there something catywompus about CB? Granted, I'm odd in that I'm running with Heroic Lava Spine, at least at first so I can build threat quickly and then I switch to normal Acrid Death, but with Lava Spine, I'm seeing CB show up well behind several other abilities, just above Rev/Dev/TC. SS, SS w/HR, HS, Shockwave (without thunderstruck), Rend (without thunderstruck), and HT all come out ahead of it in the rotation tab, just looking at the TPS column.

I recall CB behind only SS w/HR before. Even when I pop in Acrid Death's number, it stays about the same value. Am I missing something, or is CB just basically irrellevent now and I missed the memo?

[gom]

Am I missing something, or is CB just basically irrellevent now and I missed the memo?

I came to the same conclusion with my numbers popped in.

However, since CB is based on AP you can play a bit with the AP inupt and then CB becomes eventually rellevent. So we can say our rotation is dynamic, depending on the state of vengeance we have.

Example: I added AP in 4k Steps
( My numbers: 8122 Stamina , 160k hp, -> Base Health ~80k, 7k AP, Numbers are with a 30% Bleeding Debuff)

I think the spreadsheet is calculated with an avarage of 65% Vengeance Stack


+0 AP ( 65% Vengeance)
SS(HR) > Rend/Thunder Clap >Shockwave > SS > Devestate

+4000 AP Vengeance: (90% Vengeance)
SS(HR) > SW > TC > Rend > SS > CB > Dev

+8000 AP ( Revenge becomes viable, CB > SS) (over 100% Vengeance)
SS(HR) > SW > TC > Rend > CB > SS > Revenge > Dev

+12000 AP Vengeance
SS(HR) > SW > TC > Rend > CB> SS > Revenge > Dev

+16000 AP
SS(HR) > SW > TC > Rend > CB> SS > Revenge > Victory Rush > Heroic Throw > Dev


If my calculation are correct cb is only rellevent with a high vengeance stack the same goes for revenge

[Tengenstein]

For a short period of time after 4.1hit CB's threat modifyer was not functioning. Me and Kop did some in game testing and its been restored. Wartotem's sheet does not at present take into account the reversion. In order to rectify this change cell H10 on the abilites tab to;

=2*(H9+H4*H5)*$Stats.$B19

which rather makes CB all kinds of awesome. all kinds.

Gom, unfortunatly due to several quirks of the prot warrior design our max tps rotation is not quite as simple as pressing the highest threat button thats not presently on CD. Our optimal max TPS rotation is based around a 4GCD cycle of using SS on CD and weaving CB, SW, HT into the fourth GCD after SS. Their is also the argument that if you can covert as little 3 rage per minute from the rage saved by using a Rev over a Dev to increase the number of HS you can get at near max vengeance Rev can be a threat gain over Dev.

But yeah CB, it rocketh.

[Loganisis]

Thanks Teng.

Gom, sorry, I should have said I always look at 3 levels, 0%, 50%, and 100% before I make any conclusions.

[Tengenstein]

Many Dwarfs died to bring us this information.