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Thread: The Cataclystic Protection Warrior Spreadsheet

  1. #61
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    Any delay of Shield Slam is a delay of potential DPS later since it is cooldown locked. Even when Shockwave was 50% stronger than Shield Slam, it was typically a DPS loss to delay Shield Slam.

    It's not just about the damage per GCD, but the damage contribution of subsequent GCDs. Delaying Shield Slam means a direct reduction in the following GCD, which could have been something with a chance to reset the cooldown of Shield Slam. This is critical early on as the value is much higher.

    It's generally worthwhile to sacrifice a small bit of uptime usage on things like Shockwave/Rend and refresh them on GCDs where you don't have a chance of losing procs rather than eating into the potential Shield Slam/SnB refreshes. The gain on the single GCD is usually overwhelmed by the loss over the next rotational period.

    I am going to make some experiments of simming this type of thing soon, though. I would like to try out some other concepts that are very difficult to formulate accurately compared to basic simming.
    Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!

  2. #62
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    Then again, delaying SW is a loss in DPS as well, it would just be a matter of how much DPS you lose either way (which btw is dependant on if you have the GoSW or not)

    I'ld love to work on a sim like that, need a challenge that can keep me busy during my Java programming classes :P
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    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  3. #63
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    I've run numbers in the past and delaying Shockwave was always a much greater DPS increase. I believe you had to delay SW by upwards of 20 seconds for it to become a net DPS loss.
    Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!

  4. #64
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    Is there some way we can calculate from our Damage taken and the legtht of the fight an approximate vengeance amount?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    Is there some way we can calculate from our Damage taken and the legtht of the fight an approximate vengeance amount?
    Only if it's a pure static fight with no cast times. So, realisticly ... doubt it'ld be as accurate as you just doing the boss and using an addon to give you the actual number back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  6. #66
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    There are some statistics one can do to model the uptime based on interruptions and avoidance, but it's a little complex. I think Astrylian for Rawr ended up simulating the drop-offs based on avoidance curves to generate some polynomial coefficients based on dodge rates.
    Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!

  7. #67
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    I understand this is a very broad and difficult topic, but do you have suggestions on what trinkets to use for each encounter depending on the tanks' role? I am mostly talking about encounters where a tank is likely to receive a dangerous combination of both magical and melee damage, ie HM Maloriak.
    Last edited by kopcap; 03-22-2011 at 08:35 AM.

  8. #68
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    The Tol barad trinket is certainly a great one for both.
    Can't really find a particular one to go with it, go for a sta/mastery trinket I'ld say
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  9. #69
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    Hey WarTotem,
    is there a chance getting an updated version for 4.1? (Increased devastate dmg, magical shield block etc)
    Can you give an ETA? (I know thats always difficult)
    Until then keep up the good work, I love your spreadsheet since the first release \m/

    Cheers
    Threat is epic and binds on pickup

  10. #70
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    ETA: Soon™
    I've been unable to log in, so I haven't checked the patch notes on their correctness etc yet.
    I'll post once I got the updates going
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  11. #71
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    New version uploaded, changed to 4.1
    Also rechecked Shield Slam numbers, average base damage seems to 1920 now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  12. #72
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    Let me just process this..

    CB and Revenge are completely out of our rotation for single target (unless its the 4th GCD at full vengeance where CB seems still valid)?
    SW is a TPS loss until we reach 40-50 vengeance?
    Last edited by kopcap; 05-04-2011 at 11:55 AM.

  13. #73
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    is that with or without improved revenge? I still pick up improved revenge for multi tanking (even on some bosses you'll have multiple adds, and I'm typically the add tank on fights) and I thought with this, it edged out revenge > devastate when spec'd.

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  14. #74
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    As far as I know, that's correct. Revenge is still a little bit higher than Devastate with Improved Revenge--but not by a lot.

    Without Improved Revenge, Revenge's damage is laughably low nowadays though. (Like seriously, ridiculously low. I'm not sure what the logic behind that is.)
    Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!

  15. #75
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    Even with Imp.Revenge, my Devastate is now better threat on a single target throughout the entire vengeance range, according to the sheet. Ah well 2 out of imp.revenge and 2 points elsewhere. Cruelty, or perhaps Impending victory....
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 05-04-2011 at 05:30 PM.

  16. #76
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    Same as teng,
    Even with imp revenge, devastate is better from 0 through 100% vengeance.
    At 0 vengeance, my devastate is beating a non-HR Shield Slam.
    Concussion Blow doesn't pass devastate until 75% vengeance
    Shockwave passes devastate around 35% vengeance
    Heroic throw < devastate until around 35% vengeance

    My first gcd on pull is now a devastate, not a shield slam. And I think there is something fundamentally wrong with that.
    "I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"

  17. #77
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    yeah you should be shield blocking on the pull! :P

    with Imp.revenge being a no hoper, i'm not sure where to plop the last two points into my allround spec, i could go cruelty, Thunderstruck, Impending victory, or safe gaurd. and assuming VR still has o.5 threat per effective healing it may out threat deavastate on a single target if 100% effective.

    and it would give me something else to press godammit.

    and what about Prime glyphs?

  18. #78
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    I was saving shield block for the second shield slam cycle - when I had more vengeance. Since tricks and MD don't fall off for 30 seconds - you essentially only get one shield block for that duration: so use it when you have higher vengeance - but again, depends on encounter.

    BUT
    are we sure we are doing this right.
    4.2 patch note says "Shield Slam no longer causes a high amount of threat"
    But I thought it didn't now???

    Have we verified that the threat values on SS are 3 times damage?
    "I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"

  19. #79
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    it should be, I mean would be kinda wierd for our Protection spec signiture ability not to be affected by defensive stance.

  20. #80
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    Well the tooltip still says it generates a high amount of threat.
    and green text on mmo is datamined.

    So maybe the tooltip is just finally catching up?
    "I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"

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